Norse roster: tournie vs league

[PubBowler]

I was looking at the roster listed in: viewtopic.php?t=24188

and it got me thinking about what I would start with in a league or tournie.

My developed Norse team would want:

Snow Troll
2 Ulf
2 Blitzers
2 Runners
1-2 Thrower
5-6 linos

Thus, wouldn't it be best to start with Ulfs & Throwers as they skill up slower than the other two positionals and are best with a couple of skills?

Vice Versa for tournies where instant impact is more important and you don't want to be spending skills on getting Ulfs Block?

Thus: Tournie- Blitzers & Runners vs League- Ulfs & Throwers.

Or not.

Any opinions welcome.

[BloodBowlGuy]

For a long term league (or multiple seasons) I would take the ulfwerners and let them grow with you team.
In a tourney I would take the skilled players and use their already-in-place skills to your best advantage.

In my league (multiple seasons), players who have chosen norse teams have taken the less skilled players right away and had them try and earn some SPP's and get skills as soon as they can, the other skilled players that they did not buy at the beginning were bought when the money was available.

You mave a little more difficulty at the beginning with under skilled guys but it works out better in the long run.

[mattgslater]

In a tournament, Snow Trolls and Runners would be comparatively better than they would be in leagues. The ST's primary issue in a league format is that once you've got him he's sometimes hard to maintain, because he's a big target and you've got a high premium on your Apoth (AV7 and need to play rough).

I think your instinct to start two Ulfs in a league is correct. I'd probably do the same in a tournament, actually, but Ulfs look like they'd be better in leagues than tourneys. One thing that makes them good in league play is that they're much easier to skill than BOBs or Sauri, more like CWs or BCs.

In a tourney, unless there were a lot of skills available I'd probably ignore Berserkers, and even then they'd only meet the opportunity cost IMO if it was a very speedy tournament or there was more than 1.1M in cash available. Throwers in league play are just Linemen when the extra cash isn't a big deal. In a very skilly tourney, you might be better off taking one to trade the extra skill for a Leader RR or to have an obvious Sure Hands candidate, but I don't think I'd be likely to do either in most formats, so I'd probably value LM+AC+CL over Thrower in a tourney, or package the extra 20k with either a Berserker to get an Ulf (or TRR), or with an Ulf to get a pair of Berserkers.

In a league, I'd be tempted to go for player quality. I wouldn't start with a Snow Troll, but I might well start with an Apoth so I can pick a Snow Troll up as soon as I could afford one (for the price of the ST, I could get an Apoth AND a Runner/Zerk). This would motivate me even more to grab a pair of Ulfs, if nothing else so the Apoth doesn't feel so much like a long-term investment with short-term money. In a tournament, not on your life, unless you go very lino-heavy at 110, with at least 13 players and a Snow Troll.

1M League
11 players: 55
Apoth: 5
3x RR: 18
2x Ulf: 12
2x Runner or 1x Runner, 1x Berserker: 8
1x Thrower or 2x Treasury: 2

Or

11 players: 55
Apoth: 5
4x RR: 24
2x Ulf: 12
1x Runner: 4

1M Tournament, no/few skills
13 players: 65
3x RR: 18
2x Runner: 8
1x Snow Troll: 9

1.1M Tournament, no/few skills
13 players: 65
3x RR: 18
2x Runner: 8
1x Berserker: 4
1x Ulf or 1 ea. Berserker and Thrower: 6
1x Snow Troll: 9

1.1M Tournament, some skills
12 players: 60
3x RR: 18
2x Runner: 8
1x Snow Troll: 9
2x Ulf: 12

1.1M Tournament, many skills
12 players: 60
2x RR: 12
2x Runner: 8
1x Berserker: 4
1x Thrower: 2
1x Snow Troll: 9
2x Ulf: 12

That's off the top.

[PubBowler]

In a tourney, unless there were a lot of skills available I'd probably ignore Berserkers,

They're very good guard carriers I think. You don't have a lot of ST access and those that you do have need others skills.

Ulf: Block

Snow Troll: Mighty Blow

Plus with Jump they're a bit more mobile than MA6 & AG3 might suggest.

[mattgslater]

I agree with PubBowler about the Norse need for Guard and the convenience of S access on a Berserker, especially in a league format. But if you've got a one-skill-per-game tournament coming up, then whenever you consider buying a player you've got to think about any cool improvement potential in terms of opportunity cost, meaning in practice you've got to value it at zero as it butts up against a lino with Kick, an Ulf with Block, a ST with MB or a Runner with Dodge or Side Step. Then you're paying 40k for Frenzy and Jump Up, with three other Frenzy guys available. Screw that.

However, if you've got a lot of skills in the tournament format, Berserkers are good carriers for Guard, or if doubles are available, Stand Firm (since you can take Guard on linos, but SF/JU/Block/Frenzy is just evil, even on a Hobgoblin).

[DDogwood]

I'm thinking about starting a Norse team for our next league season, since I've nearly finished painting them (only 3 linos left). I was thinking about making one of my berserkers into an expendable casualty machine - give him Piling On and Mighty Blow for his first two skills, so that my opponent is forced to double-mark him in order to keep players on the pitch.

It seems to me that having Guard means that his Frenzy skill becomes almost useless, but maybe there are enough other Frenziers on the team that it doesn't matter.

[mattgslater]

Guard is good on Blitzers only because they have S access and Block. Otherwise, I think the MB/PO plan is better (go MB before PO: they're roughly equal in effect, but MB keeps you on your feet; even with JU, that's still a good thing). But the best skill for a Blitzer is Stand Firm, which is seriously underrated. Combined with two ST4 players and universal Block, a couple of Stand Firm/Jump Up guys make defense easy. Frenzy/Stand Firm is also a good combo, as it makes crowd pushing much safer.