Should Brettonians be in Bloodbowl?

[mattgslater]

Whatever. Squires don't either.

If you want to give them a Human Lino w/ Wrestle profile, make them GS access @ 70k, I say. Then they fit nicely into either of the teams I described.

[Darkson]

Joemanji said:

How many players have MV>7 and ST>2? [snip]

You forget the player that he resembles the most. The high elf catcher. (Oh hey, and the Elf catcher is MA8 ST3 too.)

And AV7.
And who comes from a race that's meant to be faster than humans.

[stashman]

If you keep Bretonnians like a human team, but more diffrent (Amazon, Norse) and a new kind of gaming style, I come up with this.

0-16 Lineman 6 3 2 8 A 40K
*Human, but not skilled (AG2) in the ballhandling. Cheap "fodder"

0-4 Runners 8 3 3 7 Diving Catch, Juggernaut GAP 100K
*Best players in the team. Allways on the run for the ball.

0-4 Blockers 5 3 3 8 Wrestle, Grab GS 80K
*Heavy Duty. Make way for the runners.

Rerolls: 60K

[BloodBowlGuy]

If you keep Bretonnians like a human team, but more diffrent (Amazon, Norse) and a new kind of gaming style, I come up with this.

0-16 Lineman 6 3 2 8 A 40K
*Human, but not skilled (AG2) in the ballhandling. Cheap "fodder"

0-4 Runners 8 3 3 7 Diving Catch, Juggernaut GAP 100K
*Best players in the team. Allways on the run for the ball.

0-4 Blockers 5 3 3 8 Wrestle, Grab GS 80K
*Heavy Duty. Make way for the runners.

Rerolls: 60K

Interesting...I might have to try this roster out.

[plasmoid]

Hi Darkson,
>And AV7.
True. And AG4. But even so, they're MA8 ST3, without being "peak of physical and athletic perfection" or a "superhuman undead monster".

>And who comes from a race that's meant to be faster than humans.
?
MA6 linemen, MA6 throwers, MA7 blitzers, MA8 catchers. Faster how?

Cheers
Martin

[DoubleSkulls]

Ian said:

For the WFB cross over crowd the issue is that different varieties of greenskin, vampire etc are all dealt with in the same army book. In WFB Brettonians are separate from Empire and always have been.

Exactly. Thanks Ian. That was always a big point for me.
In my thinking, Bretonnian culture is sufficiently different (e.g. distinctly feudal) to have it's own army, so it could have it's own blood bowl team too.

But I'm not a fan. WFB is NOT Blood Bowl. They are different universe/timelines. Human teams cover all humans for me quite happily, just like the numerous flavours of chaos are covered by 2 teams.

[MadLordAnarchy]

I'm going to offer some un-needed moral support and ignore the conversation about implementation. I couldn't care less about the Warhammer world and have a deal of personal animosity towards GW but I've now got no problem with the concept of different Human nations playing. My position on that was reinforced to me yesterday when one of my coaches got very excited about selecting a Nipponese player for his team. Perhaps mine and others animosity towards GW clouds the thought that the French are as valid a concept for BB as the Vikings.

[Darkson]

>And AV7.
True. And AG4. But even so, they're MA8 ST3, without being "peak of physical and athletic perfection" or a "superhuman undead monster".

And wearing less heavy armour, so able to run faster.

Human Blitzers could probably have MA8, IF they removed their armour.
I suppose ifthe pride of Brettonia want to run around a BB field in their long johns, then a MA8 ST3 statline is fine, but with AV7, I don't see them doing it for long.

MA6 linemen, MA6 throwers, MA7 blitzers, MA8 catchers. Faster how?

Which is because elfs are not physically designed to carry armour, so slows them down. Elf linos should move 7, but the extra armour slows them down, to human standards.
Plus I'm talking fluff here.

[plasmoid]

Hi Darkson,

>And wearing less heavy armour, so able to run faster.
Which still doesn't explain their ST3.

>Human Blitzers could probably have MA8, IF they removed their armour.
Thank you. Much like high elfs and pro elfs I suppose.
My argument isn't, then, that Bretonnians are unusually fast.
But that they are tough and strong, and better able to handle playing in a BB kit which is somewhat heavier than the one worn by catchers.
Strong and gritty.

>Which is because elfs are not physically designed to carry armour, so
>slows them down. Elf linos should move 7, but the extra armour slows
>them down, to human standards. Plus I'm talking fluff here.
I think it is a tad simplistic to simple say "taking of your armour makes you faster". If that were so, I think most species would employ a mix of armoured and unarmoured players.

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Ian,

But I'm not a fan. WFB is NOT Blood Bowl. They are different universe/timelines. Human teams cover all humans for me quite happily, just like the numerous flavours of chaos are covered by 2 teams.

I never meant to indicate that you were.
Just that you accurately described the 2 factions.
And I'm sure you represent the larger one.

But seeing that JJ did the deed himself, and brought in 2 other human species that the "human" team seemingly couldn't cover - I personally (and others, like MLA above) think that Bretonnians are viable candidates for their own team. (Heck, a lot more so than the norse and amazon).

Cheers
Martin

[Jural]

If there can be a Pro Elf squad along with the High, Wood, and Dark Elves, then there can be a different human variant as well. Any arguments to that end are basically ridiculous- smaller variations are already represented in the game.

However, I just haven't seen any ideas for Brettonians that really look like they are adding anything new to the game. They all seem to be based around a theme of re-creating a social hierarchy or having knights play Blood Bowl. Pardon me while I yawn. Many of the teams I have seen wouldn't even make it into MBBL2 type leagues... not because they are too zany, but just because they are too boring! Actually, there may be a Brettonian team in MBBL2... I have to profess I never looked.

The Brettonian teams suggested don't catch on for the most part because I think most people look at the proposed rosters and say "Meh, whatever." And by now, the whole Brettonian idea has been thrown around with boring subject matter for so long that legitimately interesting ideas are immediately clouded by prejudice against the concept.

So, I'd suggest going back to the drawing board and coming up with a totally unique team that you would enjoy playing, and that doesn't share any design space with other teams. Then when Darkson comes back with his fluffy arguments, tell him you don't care about fluff, this roster looks like it would be fun to play, darn it!

To help you, here is a new team which I think would be fun to play, and play nothing like any of the existing teams

0-16 Linemen 5 3 4 9 GA 70k
0-4 Blitzers 6 3 4 9 Block GA 100k
0-2 Throwers 5 3 4 8 Pass GP 80k
0-2 Blockers 4 4 3 9 GS 100k
Re-Rolls- 50k

(I stole it from the High Elf variant thread- but that is definitely a line-up I looked at and said "Now that's new!")

(And you can answer any questions about fluff in the normal matter, make up BS about magical water in Brettonia, or explain that the Brettonians can afford better gear and training, blah blah blah. As long as you don't add on a unicorn, everything will be OK.)

*This message was only 2/3rds satire. It's up to you to choose which third to take seriously.

[plasmoid]

Hi Mattgslater, Stashman, PubBowler and MLA.
I'm glad to have you here, seeing as how you each in your own way display a vision of Bretonnians that can not be confined to the human roster. Just nice to see that I'm not the only one whos thinking would bother the hell out of those more conservatively inclined.
That cheered me up quite a bit

MattG,
I'm not thrilled about the ST4 player. To me, that is a "critter" stat. You've seen the heat that humble MA8 caught here, and I think that ST4 could never fly.

As for your other version. Doing any more than 1 non-BB name has caught me buckets of napalm. So I'd rename them.
And I've been told that nobody on a Bretonnian team should be able to pass. (Not that I fully agree).
But my only real problems are that they look really weak compared to humans (IMO). And that I'd like to know what their "niche" is - because do agree with Joemanji that a team needs a niche to be warranted.

I don't get why Squires would have Wrestle, but I do think it would be cool if some team had it to start.

I used to have 2 kinds of "squires". Some with sure hands (ball fetchers) and some with wrestle. Funnily, that got attacked too (for being too messy). So I merged them into 1 position (of 0-4) and as the 0-4 with sure hands funnily got attacked for being "unprecedented" and "useless", I went with wrestle.
But I do think that wrestle is OK. After all, they're not there to help their lieges get drinks and stuff. They're there to clear the way for their lieges.

to Darkson, you said:

If you want to give them a Human Lino w/ Wrestle profile, make them GS access @ 70k, I say

That's the very profile I'm using
If I had to shift some weight around on the team, to make the blitzers less super, I'd give these guys grab too:
6338 wrestle, grab. GS.
That's a player who is there to clear the way for his liege

Stashman, your latest team:
It isn't even all that dissimilar to mine in it's premise
I used to have AG2 linemen too, until they got hammered on by a certain group of posters, who found them to be un-human. Come to think of it - I think you were among them.....(?) Never mind

I shifted to loner, and now just "no G access" as the smallest way of making them not too reliable players. But the idea is the same.

And your blockers are a lot like my yeomen. As I just wrote to MattG, if I were to add one more skill to them, it would definately be grab! So much similarity there too
Make way for the runners/blitzers is exactly a design I can relate to

Now I'm not too crazy about your runner. But I see that he has quite a bit in common with my blitzer too. And that you have no problem with MA8 ST3. Sweet.
Actually, my original, original, aristocrat was a catcher passer hybrid. Ah, that was ages ago. I do think that there would be something cool about P access on the knights (which you also had on your other version) (less thrilled about access to blodge) - but as noted above, some people hate the thought af knights passing the ball...(?)

If I were to make a hybrid between your ideas and mine (and some of MattGs), which has a clear BB niche, and which does comply with some of Joemanjis and Darksons criticism here (even though it won't change their view), I'd be tempted to consider:
0-16 40K linemen 6337 - A
0-4 80K yeomen 6338 grab, wrestle GS
0-4 110K blitzers 7338 block, juggernaut, sprint
(But I honestly think that MA7+sprint is just plain uglier than MA8)

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Jural,

So, I'd suggest going back to the drawing board and coming up with a totally unique team that you would enjoy playing, and that doesn't share any design space with other teams. Then when Darkson comes back with his fluffy arguments, tell him you don't care about fluff, this roster looks like it would be fun to play, darn it!

Thanks. I actually do think that the team posted here is unique enough and fun enough to fit the bill
I think that the wrestle + grab player mentioned here is quite inspiring, but I don't want to end up overpowering the team, or blurring the line too much between liege and serf.

Cheers
Martin

[Glucksbar]

I like Jurals idea of taking back the whole team to the drawing board. We've seen a lot of different rosters, but none seems to please es all (or at least a majority).

And Jurals team is nice, but I don't think that AG4 on a human team is in line fluff-wise.

But, let me throw in a few thoughts about Bretonnians, that I would like to see represented in a team. Perhaps we can all come up with such lists and then make a team out of it.
So, when I think of Bretonnian teams, I think of knights. Yes, it may be boring, but many BB teams are lent on their Armybook and Bretonia is the land of shining knights and dirty peasants.

So, I would love to see a highly armoured team, mixed with cheap trash, but more about that later.

So, if I were to put my thoughts on Brets based on the army list:

Peasants: slow, untalented, weak and stupid. So AG2, MA5 AV of 7, and perhaps Animosity, because they are judged unworthy by the royals.

Squires should be average, but still lend something to their masters, so guard (very strong), side step (to show how they get out of their masters way, but still stay in place), grab, sure hands or something like that.

The knights. What is it, that differs Bretonia from the Empire? It's the blessing of the lady, so a human team with regeneration perhaps? And therefor no Apo?

Knight Errant should have dauntless, to represent their furious charge.

Knights of the realm should come with block and nothing else.

Questing Knights could have St4, no block and Loner to show their isolated nature.

Grailknights could be the shining stars, but 0-1, like a big guy. Regen, Pro, perhaps stats above average? MB? Juggernaut? Still no Block.

The team should be unique in every way and add something, that hasn't been seen before on a human team, I think.
And I didn't propose a team here, I just mentioned my thoughts on a team that emerged out of a land full of knights and peasants. Perhaps we can find a common line, that helps us build a team.

And they shouldn't be MA8 on default. The team should be in a range MA5-7 and AV7-9
That's what I think.

[rodders]

WHY WON'T IT DIE ?????


please somebody kill it