Buffed Multiple Block

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:24 am

Hi all,
I've been thinking about improving multiple block in my own league.
IMO it just isn't worth a skill pick.

My solution would be simple: Change the ST modifier on opponents from +2 to +1.
It would make it useful to other players than big guys (who are likely to fear the turnover).
It would also make it better. I know. But how much?

Cheers
Martin

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:53 am

I *think* that its just a bit too much of a boost. For S4 players with block this probably would make it the default next skill.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:42 am

Also makes it a better pick for Dauntless players.

I don't know that it would be overpowered but I think it might be.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:59 pm

Make Multiple Block work on a Blitz (still no follow up) would give it a not so powerful boost.

The only players in our league that have Multiple Block is Treeman and Deathroller and its about 80 teams!!!!

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:23 am

Wow. I'm so surprised by this!

Gotta say, I think the poll result is just nuts. Then again, you must think I am!
But I think I'll try it out all the same.

Stashman said:

Make Multiple Block work on a Blitz (still no follow up) would give it a not so powerful boost.

See - I completely disagree.
All the power of the old multiblock came from blitzes. Build a nasty hitter with multiblock, and smack 2 players on every turn. That's how it worked in my old league anyway. Back then it was a somewhat popular skill (but no more than that).

Now that it just works on blocks, you get to use it once on the LOS per offense, and other than that, your opponent has ample opportunity to get away before you use your multiblock skill.
I've taken it in my treeman (in our mini-league) and lived to regret it.

Ian said:

For S4 players with block this probably would make it the default next skill.

Over mighty blow? Guard? Or other stuff like tackle and piling on?
I seriously doubt that.

Stashman said:

The only players in our league that have Multiple Block is Treeman and Deathroller and its about 80 teams!!!!

See - if multiblock is that much of a dead skill, I can't see how changing the modifier will propel it into brokenness. Arrogant as it may seem, I think that you're all mistaking "worth taking" for broken.

I've got data that coincides with Stashman's.
My old league has a database over picked skills.
There are 24(?) teams, and they play a looong season, so 4th and 5th skill picks are not uncommon.
Looking at the strength category, I get:
122 Guard
113 Mighty Blow
49 Piling On
16 Break Tackle
7 Juggernaut
7 Strong Arm
3 Stand Firm
2 Grab
1 Thick Skull
0 Multiple Block

Cheers
Martin

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:49 am

If people are taking Thick Skull over MultiBlock then there is a problem.

+1 ST doesn't fit in any of your poll options exactly IMO. It isn't a first pick, as you'll probably want Block first. Being a 2nd or 3rd pick doesn't make a skill not broken though. Combos are more often the source of "brokenness" than individual skills IMO. Just imagine a Black Orc with Block & MulB backed up by some mates with Guard. They are walking through any defence turn after turn. Adding skills like Tackle, (new) Grab or even Wrestle for the second block would boost this ploy.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:07 am

Hi Joe,
I just don't think the situation you describe is overly scary.
They aren't running through anything, because he can't multiblock on blitz.
So he moves up to 2 opponents with his mates.
They then have time to respond: Bring in some mates and block back.
Or dodge back 1 square and yell it the orcs.

And if something happens and this fails - what are the orcs getting from their 4 skill combo?
1 extra block, without mighty blow, tackle, frenzy or something similar.

To me, a ST4 player with block would be justified in taking, frenzy, guard or mighty blow over (improved) multiblock.
I think you might find 1 multiblocker on most teams. It's a utility skill like kick.
But I wouldn't be shaking in my boots when facing one.

Cheers
Martin

(PS, back in the day, we all faced claw+fang players that could blitz with multiblock. Those were scary - but not enough to ever consider nerfing multiblock)

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:12 am

Many teams can't dodge away for a one step defence. Nor can they muster enough muscle to bother those 3 Black Orcs. Maybe not broken - I'd be willing to try it. But it seems like a tipping point. You could never hassle the cage for example - MulB would just swat them away.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:34 pm

Hi Joe,
the thread can only detiriorate from here

You can post more examples, and I can say "doesn't sound broken to me"

But I'm happy that you'd be willing to try it. We just have no forum to try it in.

I'll give it a go in my own league, and hope it doesn't come back to bite me in the ass.
Cheers
Martin

Samael · Post by **Samael** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:12 pm

I've actually tweaked it some, myself... took the middle ground and made the first block at -1 and the second at -2 so a smart player with lower ST can still find this to be a useful skill... I figure the first hit is kind of a clean hit and your lined up more or less directly with the victim, but the second hit has lost all momentum since you have hands all over you and you just cleaned another players male chicken (hopefully), and aren't lined up so well to block another player.

Didn't lower it to -1 cause i feared it would be too powerful, and when i think of big guys, particularly ogres, treemen, and blitzing minotaurs (if they didn't have frenzy anyway), this can be a nasty skill even at -2 to both.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:34 pm

Samael wrote:Didn't lower it to -1 cause i feared it would be too powerful, and when i think of big guys, particularly ogres, treemen, and blitzing minotaurs (if they didn't have frenzy anyway), this can be a nasty skill even at -2 to both.

I think this is a better solution. Multiblocking should be a rare occurrance but not a rare skill. Right now I don't even take it on mummies, if at least one of the two blocks was -1 I might. But then people say I'm crazy because I give beastmen leap. p.s, blitzing minotaurs can't multiblock

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:31 pm

I voted "First pick on a few players. But not broken." Multiblock is generally just so much less useful than Guard, Stand Firm or Break Tackle on a big guy that I can't see taking it on anything but a Khemri team.

What about a compromise for people who think it's too strong:

+1ST on the first block, then +2ST on the second block.

If that's too good, you could reverse it to put the +1ST carrot on the other side of the resolution. Either way, I'd be a lot more likely to take Multiblock with these odds than the stock skill.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 pm

The more I think about, the more I think Martin's version might be workable. Even at +1 ST on both blocks, I'd still be taking Block and Guard first (in fact you'd probably need some Guard to make MulB useful). Then MulB comes in as competition with Mighty Blow and Stand Firm for 3rd skills.

The only big change would be that Big Guys could get two 2D blocks. No big deal IMO, since the last thing you want to be doing on a regular basis is blocking twice in a turn with a BG.

BGs should be a bit more monstrous IMO anyway.

Talk Fantasy Football

Buffed Multiple Block

Would multiblock at +1ST instead of +2 be too good?

Buffed Multiple Block