Chaos Team - first nine games

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:09 pm

Point taken then. Block all the way, and I'll have to try and get some quick SPP's on my Beastman with Tackle so he can get Block as well.

What would be a good third skill for my Big Hand/Block Beastman? I'm considering either Stand Firm (so he can go and grab the ball and not get pushed around so easily), Dodge (if I get a lucky double) or Strip Ball (so he can Blitz the ball carrier and then scoop up the ball in one fluid motion).

On a similar note, what would be a good set of skills for my +1MA Beastman? Should I go for the catcher-scorer type (with Block and Extra Arms, maybe Side Step if I get lucky), or for a player remover type (with Block, Frenzy and maybe Juggernaut)?

~Andromidius

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:15 pm

Extra Arms for BH boy, so he always picks up on a 2, or Sure Hands, so you don't waste TRRs on pick-up attempts.

For MA-guy, I'd say he should be developed like a scorer, with either Block, Two Heads, Extra Arms, or Dodge on doubles. Make your player remover a dedicated one. This guy already has Horns: just Block would be enough, really. Two Heads really makes a good blitzer as well as scorer, as your opponent must usually double-mark him. But of course Block cuts into your requisite Block quota, so it's hard to argue with.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:30 pm

Thinking about it, what do people think of Tackle/Wrestle as a skill combo?

As far as I can see, it's the best way of dealing with Blodging Elves - either they try to sneak past and get tripped onto their faces, or they try to blitz and risk getting dragged down to the floor (and possibly causing a turnover if they were trying to run the ball through my line).

Sure, I'd not have the ability for that Beastman to hurt people as effectively, but if he's a backliner he probably won't be needing to do that much anyway, merely pulling the ball carrier down and scattering the ball would be enough.

And then later on I could develop him as a Dirty Player (making use of him pulling down enemy players), or possibly Kick.

Good idea? Or would I just be inviting my opponants to foul him constantly?

~Andromidius

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:37 pm

Personally, I like skills that give you rerolls. Surehands, pass, dodge, catch, that sort of thing. That way your Team Rerolls can be used for blocks. So, for your guy with Big Hand, I'd give him Sure Hands.

Also, if you really want a dedicated player to tear up the opposition, take one of your block beastmen and give him claws. Then give him Mighty blow. He'll tear holes in the opposition roster.

Second skills on Warriors - Mighty Blow on at least one of them, and I'd seriously think about Sure Hands on one of them, a Warrior ball carrier is a pain, no 1 die blocks by War Dancers or Dark Elf blitzers. Guy I used to play gave a Warrior catch. Not to pass the ball to him, but to hand it off to him. And then form a cage with the other Warriors and a couple of beastmen and march down the field hacking and slashing all the way, 3 or 4 squares at a time.

Always remember, my young adept, if Chaos wins the casualty game in the first half, they'll win the ball game in the second.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:59 pm

@ Andro: Wrestle/Tackle is good. A single instance of Wrestle can even count against your Block total. Don't do that for both (get the other guy Block), but one would be nice.

@ WT: good advice all, except: unless the league is very AV-intensive (that is, almost all teams have some AV9), go for Mighty Blow before Claws. Another exception is if someday you develop a CW as a lumberjack... but that's a long-term deal and would only come up if there is a big problem with developed Woodies (after you've got some MB to deal with the elves themselves).

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Andromidius wrote:Hand/Block Beastman? I'm considering either Stand Firm (so he can go and grab the ball and not get pushed around so easily)

Thought I'd point out why this is a particularly bad idea. This guy will get the ball from time to time. So he probably will get blocked while holding the ball. Stand Firm means that he'll stay where he was, after a Push Back result. Which means that the next block will have a guaranteed assist.

If you wanted a "not get pushed around so easily" skill, then Fend is the skill of choice for this guy.

That said, the advice above is correct, and Fend is not that great a skill for this guy. Possibly Side Step on doubles (it does prevent getting pushed around so much), but really, you want skills that complement BH. By itself that skill isn't too useful, skills like Sure Hands, Extra Arms and Leap on doubles (followed by Very Long Legs) make Big Hand a skill to be feared.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:27 pm

I never considered Fend before. That would actually work quite nicely, thanks.

And this league does seem to be dominated by AV8 or lower teams. But Claws would be nice for knocking that damn Treeman on its arse when I next play those Wood Elves. Not to mention that Troll and Ogre (oh, and Black Orc Blockers).

~Andromidius

fen · Post by **fen** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:44 pm

btw, here's my template for a Chaos side. This uses no doubles or stat increases, but it's exceptionally effective. Of course it's rather generic, but that's the point. You can adapt it as required.

Skills are in order of selection
2 Chaos Warriors - Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow
2 Chaos Warriors - Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw
1 Beastman - Block, Mighty Blow, Claw, Piling On - Bashing killer
1 Beastman - Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On - Agility killer
1 Beastman - Extra Arms, Block, Fend, Guard
1 Beastman - Sure Hands, Block, Fend, Guard
4 Beastmen - Block, Guard, Stand Firm or Prehensile Tail or Tackle (depending on the rest of the league, mix it up a little.)
1 Minotaur - Claw, Juggernaut, Break Tackle, Stand Firm (Block on Doubles means you can take Juggernaut later.)

That's 13 players, if you need a 14th another one of the Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Prehensile Tail or Tackle Beastmen is always welcome.

You end up with a solid line that's very hard to break through thanks to Block + Guard + Stand Firm, you're amazing at crushing other bashing teams (4 claw players) and you have anti-elf tech in Prehensile Tail + Stand Firm or Tackle. If there are less bashing players in the league take Tackle on the Chaos warriors instead of Claw & Stand Firm.

Customise to suit! It doesn't actually need any doubles or stat increases to work well. Of course, they help - +AG on a beastman eliminates the need for Extra arms, +MA is ideal for a Chaos Warrior, Killer Beastman or Runner Beastman, +AV is great on any of the non-scoring beastmen or the minotaur and +ST rocks on anyone.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:23 am

If you ever get enough doubles on beastmen to be able to give Catch to one, then you've got some awesome anti-elf technology in the M category. Obviously Extra Arms complements Catch, but add in Very Long Legs and Pass Block, and the elf teams will fear you. And with 5SPP per interception (assuming he gets the ensuing TD), pretty soon he can get Block and Two Heads.

Just don't put Disturbing Presence on him. This guy wants the opposition to pass. DP makes them not want to pass.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:50 am

Another frustrating beastman to play against is:

6 3 3 8 Horns, Block, Dodge, Foul Appearance (Two Heads, etc)

Talk about slippery! Vulnerable to strip ball, but he is the most difficult strength 3 player in the game to take down. Give him Side Step or Fend or Sure Hands to round off his annoyance.

Chaos can make some annoying custom characters, to be sure.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:25 am

Jural, if you like that, you will love my current beastman soon-to-be star player:

6 3 4 8 Horns Leap, Block

and he's 8 SPPs away from his next skill.

Then again this team is currently living under some kind of lucky star as all 4 of my warriors have rolled a double in their first two skills. 4 blodging Chaos Warriors is not something to scoff at, especially when 3 of them also have Guard.

That aside, the trick I found when I started was to alternate between Block and Guard on the Beastmen. that way, you can run them in pairs and really clog things up while still getting mostly 2 die blocks.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:37 am

What goes on that beast next? VLL? Big Hand? Strip Ball? Pass Block might earn him a few extra SPPs while shortening the opposition turn.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:12 pm

Big Hand. No doubt. Unless he rolls doubles, in which case Dodge. I'd say something about a Horn-y Wardancer, but it wouldn't be appropriate.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 pm

That Chaos team I used to play was nasty. He had a beastman roll doubles and gave him pass, then sure hands. A beastman and a Chaos Warrior with catch, another Warrior with a strength increase. All of his players had at least 2 upgrades, all of them with block, then a mix of tackle, Mighty Blow, Guard, and a lot of Stand Firm with a couple of Pass Blockers in there as well. It was his team that convinced me that elf teams have to have leap. He also had a Minotaur that had block and tackle.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:34 am

as I've managed to keep him alive long enough, my next game is my first opportunity to try out my minotaur's newest skill. He had claws, block and Juggernaut before, and since I had a good amount of Guard, he just got Multiple Block. Hopefully, this will speed up the removal of opposing players.