Starting a High elf team, in the middle of a league

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:34 am

As always, I started the league with wood elves, and won practically every match, I have 3 losses in 10 games. And they were early on.
(Of couse, I got two MA inreases on my cather, and sure feet the very next match).

But I have a beef with HE. I've always thought they were crap, and so does everyone in my league, and we've been playing for 7 years or so.

But I Know I Know. You all disagree. They are great, cause of the lion warriors, and the 1 more av on the team. And wardancers and treemen aren't that great. To expensive, etc etc.

Heard all the arguments, don't need them again. What I do need however, is a good way to win using a fresh HE team, in a league with more experianced teams. I've had 3 matches, lost them all, I'm never able to field 11 players, and get turned to crap. I MISS MY WARDANCERS!!

-sigh-

Any bright ideas? How do you beat skaven teams, with their ratogre grinding machine with block, dodge? during my second turn, first half, I had 3 players in the dead and injured box.
That left 7 on the field, which quickly became 5, and after a few more turns,.. 3. I'll never get ahead. it's hopeless.

(the upshot is my lion warrior now has ma 9

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:54 am

keep the thrower back and covered, move catchers into space, blitz players off him, long pass and run for score.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:58 am

Yeah, so that was excactly what I did, only, my opponent flooded me, and I had nooe to blitz with, and tackle zones on all my players, cept the thrower and his protector.

It all fell apart like a straw house, with a rat ogre inside.

Any other bright ideas?

I could really use them.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:01 pm

could try the risky attempt of dodgin out of the tz and finishing in the end zone and then going for the pass. Another option is to sneak upfield with the thrower and try and run it in for the score that way.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:11 pm

Ok, I first tried your suggestion with runnig guys upfield, and staying deep with the thrower. I Got boxed in, after that, there wasn't enough left of my to to achieve anything.

But I have a theory, against skaven, the ratogre has to go first. So by running the ball downfield, and supplying him with a screen, that might make i far more easy?

I dunno.

But how do you break the evil cirle of never having enough players, and cuz you haven't got enough players, the rest of em gets injured, and so the story goes?

Or better yet, how do you avoid it?

Kamikaze Rudy · Post by **Kamikaze Rudy** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:26 pm

You have elves, if need be you can throw it to an elf in a tackle zone. It's still 2 shots at a 3+. Then you just dodge out. I had major problems with my last go at High Elves. Sounds eerily similar to the problems you experience now. Once you learn the nuances of using them, you will be fine. It's a hard team to use though. I think the secret is turning at least 2 of you catchers into Wardancer/Long-Range Blitzer types. Of course that takes skills.

btw roysorlie, I live in Iliinois, USA in a small town that is just minutes away from two towns. Stavanger and Norway. The town of Norway is supposedly the first permanent Norwegian settlement in the US, according to local history.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:33 pm

Although it pains me to say it I'd probably forget about trying to win games. If you get a few lucky handicaps rolls great, if not then concentrate on developing your players and protecting them.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:37 pm

You've forgotten your bloodbowl 101 mate

Play to your strengths and your opponent's weaknesses.

If you're playing against skaven then you won't beat them on a long pass play because they have the speed to cover both sides of the pitch.

Use a running play. Tie down his linerats and pound on them. Send tackling dragon warriors after his gutter runners, get a blodge/sidestep dragon warrior (you do have a blodge/sidestep dragon warrior don't you) next to the ratogre and draw him away from the play, wait for him to fail a block and use the free turn to foul the crap out of him. In a blocking war you have the agility to ensure you get assists on the right blocks, he will be making 3+ dodges to move his vermin/linerats.

Armour 7 does not last long in a thumping war and he only has one ratogre.

It also sounds like you need to work a little more on your field position. You should be using your speed and agility to isolate his players. The gutter runners are dangerous but the rest of the team only has agility 3 and will not be dodging through any screens.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 11:41 am

Marcus wrote:You've forgotten your bloodbowl 101 mate
Play to your strengths and your opponent's weaknesses.

If you're playing against skaven then you won't beat them on a long pass play because they have the speed to cover both sides of the pitch.

Use a running play. Tie down his linerats and pound on them. Send tackling dragon warriors after his gutter runners, get a blodge/sidestep dragon warrior (you do have a blodge/sidestep dragon warrior don't you) next to the ratogre and draw him away from the play, wait for him to fail a block and use the free turn to foul the crap out of him. In a blocking war you have the agility to ensure you get assists on the right blocks, he will be making 3+ dodges to move his vermin/linerats.

Armour 7 does not last long in a thumping war and he only has one ratogre.

It also sounds like you need to work a little more on your field position. You should be using your speed and agility to isolate his players. The gutter runners are dangerous but the rest of the team only has agility 3 and will not be dodging through any screens.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

It's a completely fresh team. I just now bought a DW. And he hasn't played any matches yet. My team is three matches old. I have three increases on the team, two lineelves, one with block, the other I rolled a double, so he got guard. I belive guards are important on HE teams, cuz they have no strenght players. And my lion warrior increased. All increases due to MVP. (My lion warrior got +1 MA

)

My problem is surviving playing against developed teams like Chaos, Orcs, Undead, and dwarves. Each match, they put at least 3 in my dead and injured box, hell. Even the skaven player put 5 in there, Without piling on, or fouling. So my next match, I can only field 8 players, and because of that, my next match will end up equally bad. It's a downward spiral. My only hope, is some other team getting so thouroughly trashed, that they wanna play me, cuzz I only have high elves, and that's not dangerous.

-sigh-

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:17 pm

I think you made an unfortunate choice of team. Elves are relatively fragile and most importantly expensive. Its going to be very hard for you to get players to the point where you can actually compete.

Anyway how to "recover"

Play a stand off game - dodge everyone out of TZ's so your opponent only has the blitz and no blocks. You wont win any games but you won't get killed.

Don't stand up. Players on the ground are relatively safe. When you are getting slaughtered only stand players up at the end of your move. He can only foul 1 per turn and should have the eye on him too, so won't want to risk, or he may even take pity on you.

Don't foul. 1/6 chance of getting sent off is not worth it when you are already behind and don't have a DP. You don't get SPPs for it anyway and everything should be focused on team development.

On defence try not to let the cage form properly. Kick deep if you can and get LWs and DWs between the ball carrier and the rest of his players. Hopefully he'll leave you an opportunity to blitz the ball carrier.

On offence ensure that a line elf picks up the ball and passes to your phoenix warrior. Getting all your line elves 1 SPP quickly is important because then they get a skill if they get the MVP. This also applies those who are 1 SPP short. As elves you should be able to influence SPP accumulation much more than other teams can.

Apothecary - only use him to heal deaths and stat decreases.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:24 pm

That is pretty close to what I'm doing. I never manage to play comletely standoff though.. With my woodelves I have managed to win a match, while beginning with 7 players. At the end, I had two players, and I actually managed to score.

And the other players are pretty gentle with me.

And there is a complete rookie player as well. He has only played one match, so he gets called for illegal procedure alot. Only drawback, he playes dwarfs. But none of my players has dodge yet, let alone blodge.
I have 2 guys with block.

All my linemen have at lest 1 ssp, so that's ok. Only player without SSP is my dragon warrior, but he hasn't played a match yet, so that's understandable.

For the most part, people are suggesting things I already do, and know. So it's no real news. I should have managed 2 goals aganinst the skaven team last match, only I have a real nasty tendency to reroll 1's and get yet another 1. That happened four or five times.

And, combined with the fact that three of my players were in the D & I box and one in the KO box but my second turn, it all in all made for a horrible match.

Thanx for the help though!

Khrys_Antos · Post by **Khrys_Antos** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:41 pm

Sounds to me like you have the same problem I do with my Wood Elves. I have on average 8 players per match.

Dodging around is a good idea to limit yourself to one blitz.

I'd suggest to do some fouls with your players which are at risk to getting targeted and killed. Getting them sent off the field can help. You said you needed to regroup and reform, so you will lose once at least. It took me three games before I could regroup.

Roysorlie's passing idea is also good, easy 2+ pass and 2+ catch can earn you some quick SPP's fast. And keeps the ball away from your opponent.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:04 pm

if you want to play HE, learn to play outnumbrered.
HE are quick=>as soon as your thrower send the ball, that must mean TD.
Against an experienced team, this is the same. Ok some opponent have MB, but keep away from them.
Get your lions upfield, keep your dragon free to get a cool blitz, protect your thrower (against gunter runners!!) and sacrifice some scrimage guys..
Anyway, Skaven is not the worst team to play against with HE. I think this is one of the best team you can play against where you can play moere safely.
But this is an experienced one so i dont know, what about his TR?

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 7:25 pm

One thing you need to learn quickly is that ANY team coming into a league after it has started up is going to struggle unless they manage to play against other rookie teams.

That said...

HE aren't going to get rolling until they get 16 SPPs on most everyone. They're armored elves. Even on a Wood Elf team, the linemen aren't doing anything spectacular until they have two skills.

In the meanwhile, rotate your linemen as passers, get your roster's skilled positions filled up, brace for a few losses, and smack around any Skaven, Halfling, and Wood Elf teams you can get your hands on.

As for any actual game winning tactics... it's already been covered here. Play to the team's strengths. HE are a balanced offense. Against AV teams or bashing teams, get the ball in the air. Against fast, AG teams (especially the poorly armored ones) grind the ball downfield, isolate their players, and beat the tar out of them.

Vitalis · Post by **Vitalis** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:37 pm

A question out of curiosity:

How many teams have started fresh successfully in the middle of the season in your league???

To my experience the present handicap system heavily favors experienced teams.