Should Brettonians be in Bloodbowl?

[Glucksbar]

Tweaked my proposal a bit:

0-16 Peasants: 6/3/2/8 Animosity, Wrestle; G; 40k
0-2 Squires: 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Side Step; A; 60k
0-2 Knight Errant: 7/3/3/8 Wild Animal, Dauntless, Regen; G; 90k
0-2 Knight of the Realm: 6/3/3/9 Juggernaut, Regen; GS; 100k
0-2 Questing Knight: 6/4/3/9 Loner, Regen; GS; 110k
0-1 Grail Knight: 6/4/3/9 Animosity, Stand Firm, Block, Regen; GS 120k;

No Apo for the team.
RR cost 60K


So, my thoughts behind this team:
The Brets don't use apos, as they believe they are protected by the lady. BB is a different Timeline in WarHammer and so the Brets feel different, too. They rely on their blessing. This is represented in Regeneration for all Knights and no Apo for the rest.

Peasants are so unworthy, that RR can't be spent on them, hence Animosity for them. But wrestle to show how they crawl around in dirt and got ahead of teh other scum. Upped their AV to 8, cause 7 seemed too low for 40k, but I didn't want to make them cheaper.

Squires are very versatile players, but very fragile. They benefit from RR's, but still got no apo for their AV7 They might seem a bit too cheap, but they got no G-access and so I think it's fine.

The knights:
On first glance they seem overpowered, but not, if you take a closer look.
All knights might look a bit undercosted, but when you think of the whole team, they are fine. They will be hard to replace and to gather, so the pricing is fine.

Knight Errant.
They got dauntless to show their determination to fight and wild animal to show how their eagerness forces them to attack. This way they are a cheap option, but unreliable. And they don't have S access.

Knights of the Realm:
Juggernaut to show, that nothing can stop these guys, once in motion. Removed block and guard, as it would have been too strong on a beginning team.

Questing Knights:
They got an outstanding profile, but Loner to show their nature.

Grail Knights:
They are really tough, as they should be, but again Animosity. Instead of the Peasants, they suffer from Animosity, because they outshine everyone else.

So, these are my thoughts on the team. This is far from being complet, but it's a new direction for a BB-team. It adds a new twist to the mechanics and how they wrk together. And it will be challenging.

[Darkson]

Peasants are so unworthy, that RR can't be spent on them, hence Animosity for them. But wrestle to show how they crawl around in dirt and got ahead of teh other scum. Upped their AV to 8, cause 7 seemed too low for 40k, but I didn't want to make them cheaper.

That's not animosity. Animosity means you have to roll to pass/hand-off to a player not of your race.

The skill you're describing doesn't exisit in BB, but it's Loner+.

[PubBowler]

0-16 Peasants: 6/3/2/8 Animosity, Wrestle; G; 40k
0-2 Squires: 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Side Step; A; 60k
0-2 Knight Errant: 7/3/3/8 Wild Animal, Dauntless, Regen; G; 90k
0-2 Knight of the Realm: 6/3/3/9 Juggernaut, Regen; GS; 100k
0-2 Questing Knight: 6/4/3/9 Loner, Regen; GS; 110k
0-1 Grail Knight: 6/4/3/9 Animosity, Stand Firm, Block, Regen; GS 120k;

No Apo for the team.
RR cost 60K

Too many positionals.
A lone ST4 guy has a poor mouth feel.
ST4 & Block is a big no-no.

I don't like this team, there are other better lists available.

[Jural]

OK, I wonder if Brettonian designers can bring the names more in line with Blood Bowl? To me, that's part of the problem, people come up with positional concepts and names, then try to figure out how this translates to the Blood bowl pitch.

Instead, might it not be a better idea to take a familiar roster of humans and wonder how their positionals might be different if they were in Brettonian society?

So instead of trying to make room for three varieties of knights, squires, yeoman, Unicorns, siege equipment, and the Lady of the Lake, perhaps just start with the human roster and go from there?

Oh yeah, and it might be a good idea to have some overall theme in terms of game play for the team.

[Joemanji]

I couldn't agree more with Jural.

[David Bergkvist]

Here's my take on a bretonnian team that only uses standard blood bowl positions:

Code: Select all

0-16 Lineman   50  6 3 3 8  G   -
0-4  Blocker   70  6 3 2 8  GS  Block, Tackle
0-2  Runner    80  8 3 3 7  GP  Sure Hands
0-4  Blitzer   90  7 3 3 8  GS  Block

Alternatively, the runner could exchange one point of MA for Dump Off.

[DDogwood]

So instead of trying to make room for three varieties of knights, squires, yeoman, Unicorns, siege equipment, and the Lady of the Lake, perhaps just start with the human roster and go from there?

Oh yeah, and it might be a good idea to have some overall theme in terms of game play for the team.

Not all, but most Bretonnian rosters seem to feature one or more over-the-top "Knight" positions, so the theme often seems to be "a more powerful version of the Human team".

Honestly, if there's a need for a Bretonnian team, then I think there should be an Empire team, too. Generally speaking, creating new teams to match Warhammer army books hasn't been a dazzling success (Khemri and Necromantic teams still aren't properly balanced, Nurgle teams have gone through three different official rosters, and so on).

[PubBowler]

Generally speaking, creating new teams to match Warhammer army books hasn't been a dazzling success (Khemri and Necromantic teams still aren't properly balanced, Nurgle teams have gone through three different official rosters, and so on).

Nurgle teams have a long BB pedigree if I recall.
Definitely not because of a WFB army book. At least not a recent one.

[stormmaster1]

Generally speaking, creating new teams to match Warhammer army books hasn't been a dazzling success (Khemri and Necromantic teams still aren't properly balanced, Nurgle teams have gone through three different official rosters, and so on).

Nurgle teams have a long BB pedigree if I recall.
Definitely not because of a WFB army book. At least not a recent one.

But weren't nurgle teams just incorporated into "chaos" ?

[Darkson]

But weren't nurgle teams just incorporated into "chaos" ?

Not in 1st edition, and not in 2nd fluff (though they didn't have a roster then).

[stormmaster1]

But weren't nurgle teams just incorporated into "chaos" ?

Not in 1st edition, and not in 2nd fluff (though they didn't have a roster then).

like in 3rd edition they had some seperate fluff, but the team itself would be a chaos team (just choosing nurglish mutations)

[plasmoid]

Jural said (and Joemanji agreed):

So instead of trying to make room for three varieties of knights, squires, yeoman, Unicorns, siege equipment, and the Lady of the Lake, perhaps just start with the human roster and go from there?

Oh yeah, and it might be a good idea to have some overall theme in terms of game play for the team.

I agree too. And I think that several rosters suggested here suffer on that account.
I just think that the roster that has come out of the MBBL lives up to that.
(And that you have to depart from the human roster more than a little - otherwize the new team isn't unique enough to deserve to exist).

@Glucksbar and others:
As you can see, using knightly titles will put off a lot of people.
And - even if you're into Bretonnian fluff - some of that might not work so well.
IMO - Grail knights should be guarding a grail shrine somewhere, and have no bussiness playing BB. And Knights of the Realm have a realm to manage, so they have no time for BB either. Questing knights and errant knights, I could see (in theory).

Cheers
Martin

[Glucksbar]

Ok, then a new version of my idea


0-16 Linemen: 6/3/2/8 Loner, Wrestle; G; 40k
0-2 Runner: 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Side Step; A; 60k
0-4 Blitzer: 7/3/3/8 Animosity, Wild Animal, Dauntless, Regen; G; 100k
0-2 Blocker: 6/4/3/9 Animosity, Juggernaut, Regen; GS; 120k


In terms of Animosity Blitzers and Blockers are consicered one race, Runners and Linemen are considered a seperate race.

No Apo for the team!
RR cost 60k

[mattgslater]

Well, if Brettonians are modeled after Hundred Years' War French military concepts, you'd have:

1) Lame, disrespected linemen who are very cheap. They might be good at something, but would have a clear deficiency, G-only access, and a 40k pricetag.
2) Positionals do most of the work. This leads me to see linos as more speed-bump than factotum. Still, they'd have Human statlines, with only a touch of deviation.
3) Positionals should be split evenly (or evenly-ish) into bashers and support. I think Knight/Squire/Page is a cute bit of terminology that helps support some fluffiness, but I agree that they should be designed with football utility in mind.
4) Support positionals should be ok. Bash positionals should be excellent.
5) No big guy.

In terms of theme, I see them as very positioning-oriented: brave Knights duke it out with big critters toe-to-toe, while their squires and pages perform the utility work and the humble peasants just try to hold off the lesser opposition with which the Knights can't be bothered. However, the utility guys would all have defensive skills involving positioning, to show that they have the hearts of knights if not the size or armor.

How about this?
0-16 Lineman: 5/3/2/7 G 30k or 5/3/3/7 or 6/3/2/8 at 40k. The first and third options don't suck TOO hard, but the profile in the middle only a mother could love...

0-2 Page: 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Jump Up GA 60k. I think this guy seems very Page-y and very Safety-y at the same time.

0-2 Squire: 6/3/3/8 Fend, Wrestle GA 80k. Wrestle only because a lot of people seem to like it: it doesn't seem Squire-y to me. I'd think Block makes more sense here, TBH. Or +MA... if he started with Fend instead of Block, would a Human Blitzer be 80k? Probably. Edit: You could dump this guy for 0-4 Pages, and then rename the Page "Squire." Not sure here. I think an extra positional is warranted, and to go more footbally, I think the Squire is best with the extra MA as a Cornerback-type. That also encourages a backfield of softer skill positions, which is very Brettonian in outlook, so it's nice and fluffy, plus it has obvious offensive applications that also seem like the kind of thing a knight would have his Squire doing to earn his spurs (i.e. run the ball). So 7/3/3/8 Fend GA 80k it is.

0-4 Knight: 6/3/3/9 Block, Dauntless, Stand Firm GS 110k. An Orc Blitzer with two more relevant skills (one good one, one good on the first guy) for 30k extra.

70k RRs: Cheap linos, no P access (by design), probably no SH, and certainly no fluffy reason to be very cohesive (quite the opposite).

[mattgslater]

Ooh... since only commoners use ranged weapons, take the above roster, and do this with the linos:

0-16 Commoner (name change required): 5/3/3/7 GP 40k.

In that case, go for 60k RRs rather than 70k, as easy access to Leader makes them more accessible anyway and 40k for that crappy profile and six of eight positionals priced on the high side means you need a break somewhere. The unfluffy problem is that you'll end up with Leader on a Commoner. Hmmm... a 0-1 Champion with Leader would help... he could even take Dauntless off the 0-4 guy's hands, and you'd be sitting at a cool 120k guy. Nah.

Animosity would be fun, but would run counter to the plan: the positionals are supposed to get all the glory, while the linos play a supporting role, picking up the ball and getting it to the positionals, or providing an assist/speed bump. If they occasionally save the day, well, that happens and they shall be rewarded or punished according to the head coach's whim, of course.

EDIT: Even better...
Commoner: 5/3/3/7 Accurate, G, 40k
TRR Counter: 70k

Now, instead of Leader, he goes for SH and KoR, which are much better Commoner skills. You've now got a team which doesn't at all lack for Quick-Pass potential, but can't really develop a quality Thrower without some serious luck and a lot of time. I think fluff-wise Accurate is better than P access: Jacques Bonhomme, in the GW fluff, is very English in his fondness for archery, but otherwise is malnourished and mistreated.

So here's my fluffy/footbally suggestion:
0-16 Commoner 5/3/3/7 Accurate, G, 40k
0-2 Page 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Jump Up, GA, 60k
0-2 Squire 7/3/3/8 Fend, GA, 80k
0-4 Knight 6/3/3/9 Block, Dauntless, Stand Firm, GS, 110k
TRR: 70k

So that's 11 commoners @ 44, plus 3 RRs @ 21 = 65, so 35 for improvements. A Squire is 4 to upgrade to and a Page is 2; a Knight is 7. So we'll end up with 3 Knights, at 21. 10 buys one Page and two Squires, and 4 buys a reserve.

Hmmm... 60k RR lets you have 4 Knights, 2 Squires, 1 Page, 4 Commoners and 3 RR. That's very solid. It seems to me that the optimum on RRs is somewhere in between. So 70k it is.

WDYT?