Chaos Dwarf, double roll, what to do?

[mattgslater]

Thomsen,

Let's put the theoretical Side Step lineups against bash teams aside and talk about next match. Assuming you're up against youngish Wood Elves and you have a CD team with a Guard Dwarf and a +MA Hob, on a roster with 5 Dwarfs and no Mino, here's how I'd go. DG is Dwarf with Guard, and HM is Hob w/+MA.

Code: Select all

Nickel
-- -- -- --|-- CD -- CD -- CD --|-- -- -- --
-- -- HG --|BC -- -- DG -- -- BC|-- HG -- --
-- HG -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- HG --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- CD -- -- --|-- -- -- --

Offset -- doesn't keep 'em out, but it forces them to go one way over the other, and puts your less mobile Tackle players in where they'll have to go.  If you have 6 Dwarfs, of course, don't put a Hobbo on the line, but that Guard Dwarf makes it a bit safer.
-- -- -- --|-- HG DG CD -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- HM --|BC -- -- -- -- -- HG|HG -- -- --
-- BC -- --|-- CD -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- CD --|-- CD -- --

Deep -- Good at the start of the match, as a long, ugly drive is just what you need.
-- -- -- --|-- -- BC DG BC -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- HG --|HM -- -- -- -- -- HG|-- HG -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- CD -- -- -- CD --|-- -- -- --
-- -- CD --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- CD -- --

[Thomsen]

Thx, ill start the game deep. Allthough it does seem a bit easy for him to put a lot of guys into my backfield?

[mattgslater]

He's Wood Elves, so that's going to happen anyway. If you like, you can move those outside Dwarfs out one more and up one, and the inside Dwarfs back one, and have a similar effect, but force them to blitz in the wide zone to set up for a 2TS.

The important things are:
1) You have an open Dwarf in your backfield to deal with a Wardancer or Catcher;
2) You have Bull Centaurs near the line to rush downfield and pressure.

Remember, giving up a 2TS is the second-best outcome. Also remember that the best outcome, a takeaway score, is waaay better. So try to engineer the takeaway, but in case that doesn't work make sure the pressure is on.

[whitetiger]

Wardancers are going to leap into your backfield. That's going to happen, accept that as a fact and then build your defense from there. Force the Elves to go through as many Tackle Zones as you can. I used to play a Chaos Dwarf team and that's what he used to do to me. I had a developed Dark Elf team with at least 3 skills on every one of them. He used to drive me nuts because he'd spread his defense and force me to go through all those tackle zones. The more dodge rolls an elf team has to roll, well, the odds add up after a while. Failed dodges will win you games.

[whitetiger]

Code:
-- -- -- -- | CD -- CD -- CD | -- -- -- --
-- CD -- -- | -- -- -- -- -- | -- -- CD --
--HG-- -- | HG -- CD -- HG | -- -- HG --
-- -- -- --| -- -- HG -- -- | -- -- -- --


Now, if this code comes out right, that old team I used to play would do things like this to me. The 3 CDs on the LOS all had Stand Firm and 1 of them on the corner did as well.

[whitetiger]

Okay, Matt, you're gonna have to tell me how you do that code thing.

So, anyway, The three players in the middle, Hobgoblin, Dwarf, Hobgoblin are all stacked behind the 3 LOS Dwarves. Then the wides are 2 more square outside them, 1 square from the sideline. This covers a lot of squares with tackle zones, and there is no place for a Wardancer to leap thru and miss tackle zones. He still has to dodge thru several to get free.

[mattgslater]

That works. I'd put my BCs on the corner where the HGs are (in the WZs), but otherwise I think that's pretty solid. Thomsen doesn't have the SF going for him, but that D would be ok. Maybe the CD at Mike Linebacker should be swapped out for the HG free safety behind him, as he might have to drop back pretty far to cover a Dancer.

[whitetiger]

He used his Bull Centaur as the safety in the middle spot in the back field. That centaur had frenzy. This defense is a pain to try to get thru. And then you have to deal with a centaur with frenzy once you get out of all the tackle zones. That team was a nightmare to deal with.

When he did go ahead and get 2 BCs and a Minotaur, the BCs went on the corners and the Minotaur was the safety. It went from nightmare to pure torture.

And how do you do that code box?

[mattgslater]

Okay, Matt, you're gonna have to tell me how you do that code thing.

Umm... put the word "code" in brackets and "/code" in brackets at the end. It essentially creates unkerned "courier" type, which is good for diagrams.

So, anyway, The three players in the middle, Hobgoblin, Dwarf, Hobgoblin are all stacked behind the 3 LOS Dwarves. Then the wides are 2 more square outside them, 1 square from the sideline. This covers a lot of squares with tackle zones, and there is no place for a Wardancer to leap thru and miss tackle zones. He still has to dodge thru several to get free.

Not really. He has to dodge, or blitz, or something, but there are places where you can Leap/dodge there, and it's possible to get off a 2d blitz on the corner with a little commitment (the commitment can totally come from the center of the field, given the base MA7).

[whitetiger]

Code: Select all

  
-- -- -- -- | CD -- CD -- CD | -- -- -- -- 
-- CD -- -- | -- -- -- -- -- | -- -- CD -- 
-- HG -- -- | HG -- CD -- HG | -- -- HG -- 
-- -- -- -- | -- -- HG -- -- | -- -- -- -- 

eee haaa. got it working. Maybe it'll be clearer now.

So, see where all the tackle zones are covered 2 and 3 deep? You can't even block a LOS and blitz a player in the wide zone and create a clear running lane or a space for a Wardancer to leap without a couple of dodges. And if those first 5 CDs have standfirm, and you have at least 1 Bull Centaur in the backfield, well, this defense is a nightmare against an elf or skaven team.

It won't work against a hard core bash team. You'll need a totally different defense for them.

[Thomsen]

Great stuff guys, my one BC actually has break tackle and block, but the lack off tackle doesnt make him a much better safety than a CD, as for hitting WDs.

I think Whitetigers setup is interessting, ive actually been playing with a similar setup in fumbbl. But in the next game Ill only have 5 CDs.

[whitetiger]

That 9 movement sure helps make that Bull a good safety. He can catch anybody coming across the line. That CD can't.

And, if you only have 5 CD, use them across the front and put another player in the middle of your backfield.