My Troll is a Stuffed Pig

[duttydave]

I have recently started a league with an Orc Team including a Troll on the starting roster. I thought that his strength and the ability to throw the Gobbos would be a real asset.

However, I have found that Bonehead makes the Troll a liability. I always have a player next to him but still have an uncanny knack of rolling more than my share of 1s. Before anyone asks I never try anything too fancy. I have only ever blitzed with him once when I had no other choice. I did manage a Throw Team Mate touchdown but this was a desperation play, to salvage a bit of pride in my last turn, when I was losing 2-0 to Wood Elves in my first game.

I think I should have heeded the wisdom of the more experienced coaches on here and loaded my starting roster with Blitzers and Black Orcs.

After four league games, my current team is the Troll, 3 Linemen (1 with +1 Str), 2 Goblins, 3 Blitzers (1 with Tackle), 1 Thrower (accurate), 3 BOBs (1 with block).

Having lost to Wood Elves in my first game, I have won my next three against High Elves, Khemri and Chaos Dwarfs. This is largely due to the reliability of Orc Armour and the bashing ability of the BOBs and Blitzers.

I've had such bad luck with the Troll that I'm thinking of firing him in order to bring my Team Rating down. The money I'd get in inducements may be worth more to me than a seemingly permanently boneheaded Troll. Is this a viable idea? or should I perservere with the Troll?

[PubBowler]

For future reference, this would probably have been better placed in the tactics area.

I wouldn't fire the troll now.
Most Orc teams end up with one eventually and it's not like you'll get the money back to buy the Blitzers and BOBs you should have started with.

When (if) he skills up give him Guard and Stand Firm and make sure that he can help you out without having to roll the Really Stupid test.

[Craigtw]

First off, I might have put this thread in the Tactics forum - as it does ask about how to manage a team.

If you are so disappointed with your troll, then maybe start a fresh team loaded with the blockers and blitzers as you say.

But dropping a player just to take inducements seems ridiculous. Work with what you have, and develop from there. While I agree that you should have started with the blitzers and blockers, you will eventually want a troll, so why shoot yourself in the foot

One great thing about Big Guys in general is the psychological advantage they give you - your opponents will go to a lot of trouble to get rid of them or at least avoid them.

Having coached a lot of stupid players (trolls and beasts of Nurgle), I find one thing is vital for maximizing my success with them:

Use them as little as possible

Sure, they are big, sure the are (probably) the strongest players on your team, but they can be a big liability if you plan too much of your game around their ability to stay focussed.

In most cases, there will be a lot of other plays that can be made before using your Big Guy, do those moves - especially if there is a chance that your BG can cause a turnover (e.g. if they are blocking).

When you have the proper "babysitter" for your Stupid players, then there is only a 1 in 6 chance that they are going to go stupid. If you are not using them too much, then this should not be such a problem (although they do have a tendency to go Stupid at the worst times! )

For the Beast, I like to get them a position where they get the Tentacles onto a catcher type, and then just stay there and hold on, while the rest of my team works to get the ball.

With a troll, I would get them into the thick of things, making sure that I keep one or two players nearby to act as the babysitter (NB - I would almost never attempt to activate the troll without one) and use him to lend assists (which makes Guard such a great skill for them) and to apply the TZ to try to prevent dodges.

I would block with the troll:
* If I have a 2 or 3 dice advantage (especially if they do not have Block)
* if all the other players have gone
* if I have a babysitter
* I have managed the play enough that if the troll fails (and falls) that it will not be a HUGE disaster (e.g. leave a huge gap for the opponent to run through)

Of course there could be those desperate times when you must risk it and block when some (or all) of the above conditions do not apply, but if you are a careful and prudent coach, you should be able to avoid these situations for the most part.

If you give up the Big Guy now, then you are losing out on the oportunity to learn how to use them. It is easy for a coach to blame the dice, but a good coach actually admits to their shortcomings and learns how to minimize the risks to maximize their player's potential so that dice do not control their game.

Keep the Stuffed Pig.

[DDogwood]

My feeling is that the Troll serves two functions on an Orc team:

1. He stands on the LoS on defense and soaks up hits, so you have more Blockers and Linemen to actually stop the other team

2. He gives you about a 1/100 chance of scoring a one-turn TD by chucking a goblin

[Marlow]

The Troll should be the last player you activate on a turn, unless you really need to move him to get an assist.

On some turns you may not even want to activate the Troll, just so he does not loose his Tackle Zones. Once he has Guard he is a lot more useful.

[Cramy]

Keep the Troll at this point, as others have said.

Only other piece of advice that I have to add is don't feel obliged to put him on the pitch for a drive. Against bashy teams, he's there. Against high agility teams, he's close to useless, especially on defense.

Picture a game against Wood Elves. If the Wood Elf coach is smart, he'll just dodge away and stay away. You keep having to activate the Troll to get him back into position, and you need a babysitter on top of that. The Elf team may end-up outnumbering you where it counts (i.e. where the ball is).

You have 13 players now, and will go up to 14/15 with the additional BoB and Blitzer. Bench the Troll if you are playing against a team where a Gobbo or Lineman is more useful.

[duttydave]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I appreciate the point about posting in Tactics but initially this post was just going to be a Statement 'My Troll is a Stuffed Pig'. However, it was only after I'd stopped ranting that I asked the question. I wasn't really too serious about firing him either.

All of you have given me some serious food for thought. My next game is against a Necromantic team. After that I'm due to play a Lizardman team with 5 or 6 Saurus and a Krox. I'll keep faith with the Troll and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again

[Andromidius]

The Troll is certainly useful against both teams. However, know who to throw him against - it's pointless having him try to chase Ghouls or Skinks - make sure that he causes as much pain as possible to your opponant's harder players.

~Andromidius

[skatingtortoise]

...when I had no other choice...

here is one thing to work on

if youre being forced to do things you dont want to do, youre playing into your opponents hands. if he is responding to you, you have a winning strategy.

[Ullis]

I was sure that this thread was about some Troll who kept eating (stuffing himself with) Goblins he was trying to throw. What a letdown.

[mattgslater]

Trolls are great nose tackles, once you already have 4 each BOBs and Blitzers. I wouldn't take a Troll over a BOB, but three +ST boys on the line and two +ST guys at blitz-me linebacker is a scary combo.

[Craigtw]

I was sure that this thread was about some Troll who kept eating (stuffing himself with) Goblins he was trying to throw. What a letdown.

Sounds like the making of a Blood Bowl fairy tale!

[stormmaster1]

rules for trolls:

blocking: ideally block last due to 1 in 9 turnover risk with 2 dice (although bear in mind that if the re-rolls are used for the turn a black orc has the same chance of failure). try to get 2 assists and so block with 3 dice.

stay still and don't move: always consider doing nothing as being big tough and having a tackle zone to tie up players but not hitting anyone may be better than risking a failed RS roll

Move him first (i know it's heresey). if you need to move him (no dodge, no blitz, no block) then it is safe and he can't turnover. Doing this first means you can make ammendment to your plan if he is unssuccessful. very useful if simply advancing the cage you know where the troll will be before moving the rest of the cage.

keep someone next to him: obvious really

[Ulrikk]

I'm in the process of developing my troll and I have considered two ways to build him... Sadly, I cannot really decide.

1) Guard first, then stand firm. Allows him to be a pillar in the middle of the fight. Allows him to avoid making really stupid rolls. Not a bad player.

2) Break tackle, then guard. It seems to me that a 110.000 gp player should do more than just stand around. With Break Tackle he gives the ork team something that is extremely exotic and valuable for them: a 2+ dodge roll. I suppose trolls would be much better when they move and stand close to the ball carrier than when they are being tagged by one lineman and left on the LOS. They sure are nice to include in a cage.

Right now I think I'll go with option 2 and see how it works out.
The problem of this setup is when you miss a really stupid roll, but think of it this way: 1 of 6 times he will be really annoying you, but 5 of 6 times he will be free to annoy the #¤"!# out of your opponent.

Oh, and another thing: Remember to hit stuff with your trolls! They only advance by making casualties. It's good that you bought yours early in the season. Trolls are much less efficient bashers when most of the opponents have block later in the season. It is kinda scary to make a two die block against a humble lineman with block... the chance of the troll going down to kiss the pavement is close to 100% in those situations - because Nuffle is a cruel god.

[Cramy]

I'm in the process of developing my troll and I have considered two ways to build him... Sadly, I cannot really decide.

1) Guard first, then stand firm. Allows him to be a pillar in the middle of the fight. Allows him to avoid making really stupid rolls. Not a bad player.

2) Break tackle, then guard. It seems to me that a 110.000 gp player should do more than just stand around. With Break Tackle he gives the ork team something that is extremely exotic and valuable for them: a 2+ dodge roll. I suppose trolls would be much better when they move and stand close to the ball carrier than when they are being tagged by one lineman and left on the LOS. They sure are nice to include in a cage.

The problem with Trolls is that you don't want to make any agility rolls with them if can avoid it. Yes, he can get tagged by a lineman. But if he is doing that in the middle of the pitch, he is taking lots of space with TZs.

I'd go Guard followed by Stand Firm. With Guard and Stand Firm, he will do what he is supposed to do, which is help his mates by just standing there. If he ever gets a 3rd skill, I'd be tempted to take Grab. He can then tie-up two guys, hit one of them, and keep him close so that he can keep both opponents in his TZ.