Hosing Journeymen

[mattgslater]

Ok. I like the idea of Journeymen, but I want to seriously weaken handicaps, as I have a fixed-schedule league and a houserule that gives a little extra cash to major underdogs. I also want to create a 3rd-editiony feel in a 5th-editiony game, so I kind of have to make my own pre/post match sequence and handicap rules. Tell me what you think of my background rules.

So...

1) Mercenaries are harder to get, and the array of inducements in general is somewhat weaker.

2) Journeymen come out of handicap funds, so you might not always be able to start with 11.

3) When you hire a Journeyman, roll 2d6 on the Journeyman Table to see if there's anything especially wrong or right with him. In any case, a Journeyman uses the basic lineman profile and can't use RRs (not Loner: no RRs for players not on the roster).

Journeyman Table
2: Shrimpy. -1 ST
3: Blimpy. -1 AG
4: Gimpy. Bonehead
5: Limpy. -1 MA
6: Wimpy. -1 AV
7: Skimpy. The guy just doesn't show! Sorry.
8-10: Normal.
11-12: Pimpy. Starts with 6SPP and a skill of choice from an allowed category.

WDYT?

[tenwit]

Sounds like fun. Though if the journeyman rolls a skimpy, I presume he also fails to collect his fee, right? Or at least, some other minor inducement is substituted for him (maybe he misses training and has to sit in the crowd, becoming the Heckler card.. something along those lines). After all, your stated motivation is to weaken handicaps, not strengthen them.. paying for nothing is worse than any handicap in LRB5.

[Daefaroth]

3) When you hire a Journeyman, roll 2d6 on the Journeyman Table to see if there's anything especially wrong or right with him. In any case, a Journeyman uses the basic lineman profile and can't use RRs (not Loner: no RRs for players not on the roster).

Journeyman Table
2: Shrimpy. -1 ST
3: Blimpy. -1 AG
4: Gimpy. Bonehead
5: Limpy. -1 MA
6: Wimpy. -1 AV
7: Skimpy. The guy just doesn't show! Sorry.
8-10: Normal.
11-12: Pimpy. Starts with 6SPP and a skill of choice from an allowed category.

WDYT?

The distribution on that table is brutal. Don't forget the rolls on 2d6 tend to congregate near 7. 1 in 6 guys won't show up. Try this distribution for better odds of just getting a guy and the more dramatic rolls towards the edges of the table.

Journeyman Table
2: Skimpy. The guy just doesn't show! Sorry.
3: Shrimpy. -1 ST
4: Blimpy. -1 AG
5: Limpy. -1 MA
6: Wimpy. -1 AV
7-9: Normal.
10: Gimpy. Bonehead
11-12: Pimpy. Starts with 6SPP and a skill of choice from an allowed category.

[mattgslater]

Though if the journeyman rolls a skimpy, I presume he also fails to collect his fee, right?

Ah. I need to clarify that. Thanks. If the Journeyman roll is "Skimpy" (7), you lose the inducement cash and end up with nothing. Yes, that does weaken Journeymen w/respect to other handicaps, but as I mentioned, those are all getting nerfed as well (Mercs are 2x the player's TV add, with or without a skill, SPs are 0-1 and generally more expensive, and a lot of the inducements in LRB5 have been replaced with card decks to decrease reliability without decreasing power).

My basic reasons for this are:

1) I have coaches who sniff at the idea of "parity" from inducements, and I kind of agree. It feels cheap to win on inducements, and even cheaper to lose that way.

2) I'm implementing an Underdog Bonus to Winnings: 10k for beating an opponent per full 100k Underdog value, up to 30k, -10k for losing (only to counteract Underdog value).

3) We play fixed schedules, so parity isn't as important as it is in LRB5. Every opponent has played the same number of matches, after all, so a high-value team is a reward for playing well, at least to an extent.

[mattgslater]

Don't forget the rolls on 2d6 tend to congregate near 7. 1 in 6 guys won't show up.

Ah. Deliberate, that was. I originally was going to make it a 2+ to show and leave it at that, but I think that's too nice.

Hmmm... Maybe it is too harsh as I have it.

2: Shrimpy.
3: Blimpy.
4: Limpy.
5-6: Nothing.
7: Skimpy.
8-9: Nothing.
10: Wimpy.
11: Gimpy.
12: Pimpy.

That way, he's got a 50/50 to be normal and 1/36 to be Pimpy, and still has the 1/6 to miss. It's not really intuitive: there are two "nothing" categories, after all.

Still needs work. Thanks for the tip, though. It does look a bit harsh, even still.

[tenwit]

Fair enough. So when you said "weaken handicaps", what you actually meant was "weaken inducements" That's where my reasoning came from.

I'm of the opinion that everyone should be able to start with 11 players if they want. There are other penalties that I'd accept for the line-fodder, in place of just not showing:
- Coward (once he leaves the pitch for any reason, he runs off: this game is more dangerous than he thought! Gain Secret Weapon);
- Insane (gains Wild Animal);
- Sneaky Traitor (supports the other team, though they don't know that: counts as opposition for assists, and won't block them, but they'll block him).

There's loads more. But really you want someone on the LoS for at least the first drive..

[Daefaroth]

I like the thought of specialty negatraits, perhaps swapping one of them for no-show, or even having a second die roll on 7 which includes no-show and negatraits.

I think sneaky traitor is too complicated for use, but here are a few additional ideas:

drunk: starts game in KO box
bribed: will not assist offensive or defensive blocks
nice guy: will not foul
loser: -1 on all die rolls
trigger happy: must have first action or get no action
slow: must get last action, turn ends after his action
nervous: can not be set up on LoS

[Jural]

The table is awesome, changing the journeymen mechanism, not so much so.

Personally, I think journeymen with Loner is already enough of a problem, especially given the tax you need to even get to have journeymen (reduced to under 11 to start a match.)

If journeymen seem like too much, your table is fine (a 1/6 chance of him not turning up is great, stat reductions too.) Also, consider them costing 30k-50k more than a standard linemen, that way cash horders either give up more inducements or bite the bullet and buy the replacement.

Either way, I think journeymen are typically useful in situations where teams have been brutally degraded, and in these cases it's best to allow a free way to get up to 11 for the next match. If I were you, I'd stick with that principle and tax the heck out of it rather than removing the option from the coach.

In some cases, an overdog may have a higher TV but still be down players. I still think the journeyman system is a good idea... although perhaps the Norse and Dwarf lineman are simply too good to get without a premium.

[fen]

"Pimpy. Starts with 6SPP and a skill of choice from an allowed category."

Well under this system I'd fire my linemen and then just wait until I rolled Pimpy for the Journeymen then hire them at the end of the match.

Really don't like this idea at all, it makes something that is supposed to help the crippled team either useless or overpowered. Smells like the LRB4 Handicap table fiasco.

[plasmoid]

I think that adding flavour to journeymen could be fun.
And I certainly have no problem with reducing the power of any/all inducements of it suits your league.

But - seriously - messing with a teams ability to start a game with 11 bodies is not a good idea.
That's not about the parity. That's about being able to play a meaningful game.

So, I could see messing with, even crippling, the handicap system.
But, IMO, journeymen just aren't part of the handicap system.
Heck, even Darkson likes journeymen

Cheers
Martin

[mattgslater]

Hmmm... I see Fen's and Martin's point, but I do want to give a little long-term bone to teams that need to roll Journeymen on a regular basis. How about this? Now you know you get a guy, and now you know your Journeyman will come with a downside. Remember, Journeymen are hired out of handicap, so if you are the overdog, you can't take them.

2-3: Shrimpy. -1 ST.
4: Blimpy. -1 AG.
5: Wimpy. -1 AV.
6: Limpy. -1 MA.
7: Happy: No penalty.
8: Lumpy. Niggling Injury.
9: Gimpy. Bonehead.
10: Primpy. Egomaniac.*
11: Grumpy. Wild Animal.
12: Scrappy: Starts with an MVP.

* Because my Options rules really mess with Bloodlust, and because Bloodlust bugs me anyway, Vampires have Egomaniac instead. It's OFAB, sort of.

Egomaniac (Extraordinary): This guy isn't a team player, and hates it when somebody else gets top billing. When you place this player on the pitch at the start of a drive, roll 1d6. If the die roll is higher than the number of your players on the field (including this one), or if a 4+ is rolled in any case, the player is placed normally (you may move him about after placing other players, so long as you don't remove him and try to put him back on). If not, the player gets in a tizzy and sits out the drive in the Reserves bin. Include this player when calculating the number of players on the field, so a roll of 1 fails even if you have placed no other players.

Related note: my new Vampire

6/4/4/8 Egomaniac, Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate, AS/GP 130k

[stashman]

Journeymen are players from the youth club or young recruits from partner teams of lower division, BUT Mercenaries should be diffrent.

Mercenaries should have a list of stuff so it would be harder to build to good Mercs for the team.

Lets say you play a "killsquad" and add mercs with dirty players against some teams, tacklers against heavy dodge teams, wrestlers agianst slow teams etc. You can get better team with good inducements then having your own!

A team with linemans with more than 2-3 skills in the reservs is often a Free giveaway inducement for opponents.

So its better to make the merc cost 50K more and then roll on table, just like picking special play cards. Some good stuff and some bad stuff for the player.

[mattgslater]

I could make Mercs roll on the table, I guess. What I did was make them horrifically expensive (double base cost), so nobody would ever think of one as worth the handicap. In fact, no inducement in these rules would look like a good idea for the TV, no matter how hard you squint.

[Geoff Watson]

Remember, Journeymen are hired out of handicap, so if you are the overdog, you can't take them.

Is that one of your rule changes?

Normally teams can take Journeymen regardless of TV.

Geoff.

[Joemanji]

Mercs who roll on a table would be cool, kinda like Necromunda Hired Scum.

But I agree with some of the above posters, do not mess with a team's ability to field 11 players. To be honest, it baffles me that professional sports teams worth over a million gold crowns would ever start a game with less than 16 players. Even if those players were drawn from the youth team and so were wholly substandard. There have been plenty of instances of football teams suffering flu bugs etc and they always managed to field 16 warm bodies. I think teams should be able to fill their roster for free before each game with Reserves. Linemen with -1 on all stats, Loner and cannot earn or give away SPPs.