Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
mattgslater wrote:After you have all your S skill requirements (Guard, Stand Firm) plus Mighty Blow (which you should always take before PO), you're talking a minimum 170k player. Would you really PO with a 170k AV7 player?
Yes, on a casulty not Armour roll.
If I am taking out the opponents skilled player it is worth it. Also I have not spent 170k on buying him, I soon skill up another Berserker!
Reason:''
Ne cede melia, Marlow.
Trophies: MBBL Dungeon Bowl Season Nine; Boudica Bowl IV Stunty Cup
Leicester Blood Bowl League - http://www.leicesterbbleague.com/
mattgslater wrote:After you have all your S skill requirements (Guard, Stand Firm) plus Mighty Blow (which you should always take before PO), you're talking a minimum 170k player. Would you really PO with a 170k AV7 player?
Leaving a player prone isn't as bad as it used to be. Unless the player committing the foul is a Sneaky Git and/or a Dirty Player, the chances of getting a KO or better on a foul aren't much higher than the chances of getting caught. A Piling On/Mighty Blow Berserker, on the other hand, has about the same chance of getting a KO or better on a knockdown against an AV8 player, with no chance of getting kicked off.
I think the real issue is that it's a waste to have Guard and Stand Firm on a player with Piling On and Mighty Blow - he can't use Guard when he's prone, and being prone is almost as good as Stand Firm. The real question is whether it's worth giving up a potential Guard player to get a good casualty generator.
mattgslater wrote:After you have all your S skill requirements (Guard, Stand Firm) plus Mighty Blow (which you should always take before PO), you're talking a minimum 170k player. Would you really PO with a 170k AV7 player?
Leaving a player prone isn't as bad as it used to be. Unless the player committing the foul is a Sneaky Git and/or a Dirty Player, the chances of getting a KO or better on a foul aren't much higher than the chances of getting caught. A Piling On/Mighty Blow Berserker, on the other hand, has about the same chance of getting a KO or better on a knockdown against an AV8 player, with no chance of getting kicked off.
I think the real issue is that it's a waste to have Guard and Stand Firm on a player with Piling On and Mighty Blow - he can't use Guard when he's prone, and being prone is almost as good as Stand Firm. The real question is whether it's worth giving up a potential Guard player to get a good casualty generator.
IMO it is worth it. Norse need to make the most of their limited S access, and their frenzy players are the ones with this. Yes it would lessen the effectiveness of his guard, but guard would still be very very useful.
The real question is whether it's worth giving up a potential Guard player to get a good casualty generator.
And the point of bloodbowl beeing? Getting casualties right?
Also remember you've got two berserkers, so it's posssible to have 'em work in pairs One with guard and one with Piling on At least that usually works in my leauge.
Even though Torolf Vinghild got +ST on the first roll, making him a good berserker on his own, and then took PO as the "Norse surprise" skill.. I'm taking MB next, cause that'll probably increase his cas rate substantially
I've been a bit lucky with my team though - most of my positionals getting through the matches without any injuries/deaths since they started as a LRB4 team 14 matches ago. Only a runner and my snowtroll that's lost 1MA each.
Okay, Norse Team is a go. I've bought a box of Chaos Marauders which I'm busy turning into my team, and my Beorg Bearstruck model arrived via eBay (50p - a bargin despite missing an arm) to represent my Ulfwerener.
I used different parts to represent different players. The two Berzerkers have bearded horned helmets and cloaks, the two Runners have the small horned helmets and cloth loinclothes, the Thrower has a ball hand 'borrowed' from a human model I had laying around and the Linemen all have non-bearded horned helmets and shoulder guards.
Since the Beorg model had a missing arm, I used a spare Beastman arm I had laying around. It's a bit shorter then the other, but it's not hugely noticable (and I named him 'Halfstruck' as a little joke - a Werebear who's form isn't completely perfect).
---------------------------
The Northern Renders
Ulfwerener - Rothgar Halfstruck - 110,000g Berzerker - Beragond Icehowl - 90,000g Berzerker - Kjarl Ragefist - 90,000g Runner - Erik Erikkson - 90,000g Runner - Boris Chillheart - 90,000g Thrower - Fredrik Ström 70,000g Lineman - Nils - 50,000g Lineman - David - 50,000g Lineman - Jens - 50,000g Lineman - Magnus - 50,000g Lineman - Arne - 50,000g
I picked this lineup for a few reasons. Firstly, I only have one Ulfwerener model. Secondly, I wanted both Berzerkers and both Runners from the getgo so I can have a chance in winning my first few games. A single Thrower should be fine to begin with (though I'm planning on getting a second as soon as possible, since essentially they are just Linemen with Accurate and access to Passing Skills) and level up my position players. The Apothecary is there to make sure my Ulfwerener isn't killed before he can get Block (which he'll direly need).
I also chose two Cheerleaders instead of two more Fan Factor because a/ Fan Factor should increase quite quickly anyway, b/ Cheerleaders really help with Cheering Fans (which I seem to get - and lose - alot) and c/ the Norse love their women!
My basic tactics are going to be to have the two Berzerkers stand on the LOS with a single Lineman (or a Runner if I'm facing a Big Guy and receiving the ball - Dauntless should give them a nasty shock!) and the Ulfwerener standing behind ready to get stuck in on whatever side of the pitch gets the action. The Linemen put down as many tackle zones to stop fast players getting behind me too easily, and the Runners will deploy in the Wide Zone (probably both together so they can make a run for the End Zone) with the Thrower ready to pick up the ball and throw it up field (or deploys with the Linemen if kicking).
Skills that I'd want to be getting ASAP (doubles in block):
My advice: get another Ulf model, and start with an Ulf over a Berserker (make up the cost difference by downgrading the Thrower or sacking the 2xCL).
If you want a good symmetrical defense, two Ulfs is freakin' horrendous to deal with. Berserkers don't help your game nearly as much as Ulfs; heck, if you're going to be a point-monkey about it, a Berserker and a Thrower doesn't help nearly as much as an Ulf and a Lino, and the price is the same. Also, Ulfs have a sharper development curve as they start without Block and improve by leaps and bounds after just one skill-up. Conversely, while there's lots of good stuff out there for Berserkers (read: Guard), the ROI when the first skill comes in is more subdued. Berserkers are a little easier to skill, but that's just an argument for depending on your Runners until you can afford to add a 'Zerk, so that by the time you have him and are ready to try skilling with him, your Runners have already gone up once and don't need to hog the SPP.
You're bang-on about needing two Runners, though, Andromidius. MA7 is tremendous, and with access to Dodge, Runners have the same steep improvement curve as Ulfs.
Improvements:
Linemen: Kick, Tackle, Fend, Dirty Player (must keep numbers up), Guard, Side Step. 10: +MA on 1st roll, hard to say after.
Throwers: Sure Hands, Leader, Accurate, Strong Arm, Dodge. 10: +MA.
Berserkers: Guard, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow Side Step, Dodge. 10: +AV.
Runners: Dodge, Side Step, Fend Dodge, Side Step, Mighty Blow. 10: Can't go wrong.
Ulfs: Block, Stand Firm, Break Tackle, Mighty Blow Block, Dodge. 10: +AV.
Snow Trolls: Mighty Blow, Juggernaut, Stand Firm Block, Side Step. 10: +AV.
Reason:''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
Should be around the right size, and I can rebase and paint him quite easily.
I probably won't get him until mid next week though (due to it being Easter), so he won't make my starting team. But I'll make sure he's the first thing I buy in-game.
mattgslater wrote:
You're bang-on about needing two Runners, though, Andromidius. MA7 is tremendous, and with access to Dodge, Runners have the same steep improvement curve as Ulfs.
I think I disagree with this although I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding what you're saying.
I think you're saying that Ulfs/Runners get much better with one skill which is easy for them to get.
I agree that Ulfs get much much better with one skill (Block) and in fact I think they are distinctly average to start with.
However that first skill is not so easy for them to get. AG2 and expensive rerolls make ball handling tricky and without Block/MB CAS SPPs aren't going to be quick in coming.
I think Runners are good without improvement, are more likely to skill up quickly and I don't think they get massively better with an extra skill (Dodge I'm guessing for you).
So different in my head. But I could have read your post wrong.
Apologies if that is the case.
PubBowler wrote:I agree that Ulfs get much much better with one skill (Block) and in fact I think they are distinctly average to start with.
However that first skill is not so easy for them to get.
I agree - based on how hard it is to get the first upgrade on a Troll Slayer or a Black Orc, I can't see it being too easy to do the same with an Ulfwerener (barring a lucky MVP, of course).
Well the league I'm playing in plays the 'opponant gives MVP' system, and we're all too nice to hand out useless MVP's. So the Ulfwerener should do alright after a game or three.
But that is another reason why I only wanted one to start with. Only having a single player without Block means my opponant will struggle to knock many of my players down, even with multiple assists.
And just as long as I make sure I keep a few rerolls on hand for him, he shouldn't have much trouble getting a few CAS's. So the theory goes.
But Block is the #1 skill on my list, quickly followed by Mighty Blow. Hell, even if I get a double or a stat increase for him he'll be getting Block instead.
Since I last played this team with my Chaos, his Werewolves have both developed (one with Block and +1AG, the other with Dodge) and he has two Wights. Lovely.
Needless to say, my turns were constantly much shorter then his. I suffered a turnover on nearly every turn, mostly due to my UTTERLY HOPELESS Thrower. Four attempts to throw the balls. Two misses, two fumbles. Attempts to pick up the ball after a High Kick, fails. I also suffered because I didn't consider Frenzy enough, and often rolled double pushback and was forced to block again with two dice against!
One of my Runners, however, causes a casaulty on a Zombie that attempted to block him, and he also got the MVP. I gave him Dodge.
And nothing else. No other SPP's at all. Nothing.
My opponant wins 0-2, which actually wasn't that bad all things considered (he scored twice in the first half). He gains a Fan Factor, I lose one* (yes, I rolled snake eyes. Lovely). He got a meager 20k in winnings, I got 10k. And I suffered a Niggling Injury on one of my Linemen.
Gah. Not the start I was hoping for.
One thing I've really learned, however, is that Block is very useful. And despite only having AV7, my Norse didn't suffer as badly as they should have.
I also need to start using my Norse as a team, and not as a bunch of individual fighters. I was getting far too many assists thrown against me that game.
* Actually, I didn't. I just realised that I only had 2 Fan Factor to start with. So nothing changes there. Not that it actually made a difference in-game... Still, opps.
Ulfwerener - Rothgar Halfstruck - 110,000g Berzerker - Beragond Icehowl - 90,000g Berzerker - Kjarl Ragefist - 90,000g Runner - Erik Erikkson - 90,000g Runner - Boris Chillheart - 90,000g - *7SPP, Dodge* Thrower - 'Cross-Eyed' Fredrik Ström 70,000g Lineman - Nils - 50,000g Lineman - David - 50,000g Lineman - Jens - 50,000g Lineman - Magnus - 50,000g - Niggling Injury, Miss Next Game Lineman - Arne - 50,000g
the offensive concept for Norse is a fast moving bash team. Your thrower should only be used to pass very short passes. If even a quarter of the passes you throw are short range or longer, you're throwing too long. Quick passes to get the ball into a fast moving cage for your runners. And even at that, if you are throwing the ball more than once or twice a game, you're throwing too much. Norse aren't elves. They don't have the skill sets for a high agility game. Knock holes in the opposition line and run through and try to set up a cage in their backfield on your first turn. You do need another Ulf to help with this. Use an Ulf to blitz a hole in their line, go through with at least a blitzer and a lineman to help set up a cage with the Ulf, then give the ball to a runner to get in the middle of it. The rest of your team use to just bash the crap out of his team and make it hard for him to attack the cage.
Reason:''
It's a Dark Elf world, we just let you live in it to provide fresh victims. - and I still want an Executioner to kill sauruses with.
I should have been more concise: he was throwing the ball about two squares to a waiting Runner each time. Yes, I was rolling that many 1's.
And grinding Necromantic players isn't very easy, especially considering I can't bash their Flesh Golems out of the way and their Ghouls and Werewolves are faster then me.
that's why you need another ULF. Then you can bash with their Golems. That's also why you set up a cage, so the wolves and ghouls can't get to your ball carrier. Get guard on a couple of your players. That really helps when you set up a screen downfield. Also, use your dauntless guys against his strength 4 players.
And with the throwing, you got the idea. Just had bad luck. Buy new dice.
Reason:''
It's a Dark Elf world, we just let you live in it to provide fresh victims. - and I still want an Executioner to kill sauruses with.
One with guard and one with Piling on 
At least that usually works in my leauge.
