Chaos dbl. dilemma

SteffenS · Post by **SteffenS** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:40 pm

4 skill-ups on 4 beastmen after my new (LRB 5.0) chaosteam's two first matches (and victories) has left me in doubt.

The first two beastman got block, but the last two rolled dbl. and I'm now really having second thoughts on what to give them. My first choice would normally be dodge on both of them, but I need some advice on this. I've newer coached a chaosteam before and wondering if I should use the dbl.'s for something else (like one with diving tackle) or perhaps just skip the dbl's and go for block?

I'll be facing all kinds of teams, but most will probably be bashing or semibashing teams (orc, norse, lizard, dark elves, amzons etc.). My team will probably play around 20 matches.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:08 pm

I'd go for Dodge. They'll both become very annoying, and both probably easily rack up another skill point in the future. Then give them Block, and see your opponants cry in frustration.

~Andromidius

fen · Post by **fen** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:55 pm

You can get away with skipping the Doubles at this stage. While Dodge is nice to have it's not as good as Block. Also there is quite likely to be a lot of Tackle in your league as you've mentioned Lizardmen, Dark Elves and Amazons. This devalues Dodge considerably, especially as Chaos just do not need a lot of Dodge to win.

If they already had Block I'd say take Dodge or Diving Tackle. But as it stands I personally would just take Block on them and wait till I rolled a doubles for their 2nd (or later skill)

If you really do want Dodge on them, they become your dedicated ball carriers and need to get to 16SPPs (for Block) asap.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:05 am

Though I wouldn't suggest it to anybody else, I ignored Fen's wise words and took Leap over Dodge and Pass figuring it gave me something I wouldn't have had before rather than just making something I already had better.

Now, my decision was based on my uncanny ability to roll pitifully to break armor and extraordinarily for skills, so that particular beastmen went on to get +AG and another double for Dodge proving a) chaos can mutate into wood elves if you roll well enough and b) you should recognize th possibility that it can be spectacular, but not base your choice on my freak skill rolls.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:23 am

On my Chaos teams (and I admit, it was LRB 4 when I last played one seriously) I used leap on anyone who rolled a +AG. Some coaches immediately turn +AG players into ball handlers, but for Chaos I was OK with the odd Big Hand player (it's not as good now.)

However, I think it's even more important in LRB 5- if you are going to take a +Stat player, make them impressive, don't just let them be run of the mill. Your 50k +AG can't just be sitting around handling the ball and passing once every 3 games... it needs to be dodging, leaping, catching, and annoying the opposition. Otherwise you are better off with Block or Guard or Mighty Blow or Claw or...

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:28 am

That being said- how to treat these doubles?

I'm torn. Part of me agrees with Fen... but part of me imagines that since there are 2 players with doubles, you can do something very interesting. For example, 2 Diving Tackle or Two Sidestep beasts would really make your defense annoying. It depends on league make-up, but I think that's where I would go.

Fen, would the fact that you got two doubles players at the same time change your mind at all?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:51 am

Two Side Steppers are better than one, that's for sure. Not necessarily endorsing, as I think bread-and-butter matters most for early Chaos, but just, you know, saying.

fen · Post by **fen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:08 am

Sidestep isn't worth bothering about. When you have non-doubles access to stand firm on your linemen you don't have to worry about getting Side Step just because you've rolled a doubles. Leap, DT and Dodge are the three Agility skills that give you something you don't already have. But I'd never want one of those as my first skill on a beastman, second sure but not first.

Side Step is nice, but when you can have Stand Firm for 10K it's not really that exciting.

SteffenS · Post by **SteffenS** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:21 pm

Thanks for the advice. I think Fen's remark about focusing on getting SPP for the two dodgers settled it for me. I will disregard the dbl.rolls and give all four beastmen block.
I have a CW with 3 SPP, another CW and three beastmen with 2 SPP and a beastman with 5 SPP. I will much rather focus on getting an advance for at least the first mentioned CW and the beastman with 5 SPP in my next match. Hoarding SPP for the two "could be" blodgers means that I have to "dedicate" 6 TD to those two alone. It seems far more sencible IMO to try and distribute the SPP more equally.

Having 6 or 7 chaos players will advances after only 3 matches seems really sweet, so that will be my main goal for now.

fen · Post by **fen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:51 pm

SteffenS wrote:Having 6 or 7 chaos players will advances after only 3 matches seems really sweet, so that will be my main goal for now.

That becomes really good, once you've got that many players with Block (and maybe 1 beastman with Extra arms in amongst that lot) you can start grabbing funky stuff and building unusual players.

So many Chaos sides I've seen fail because they run off after cool things and forget to get enough of the basics. Chaos have such good skill access they're incredible even if you don't get any doubles at all, so sacrificing the odd doubles roll isn't as bad as it is in other teams.

There is one other thing I can suggest. You mention having a player with 5SPPs. If you take Extra Arms on one beastman instead of Block, he'll catch passes on a 2+, this means you can throw a 3+ Quick pass with a 2+ catch to get that 1 SPP you need to skill up and move the ball a long distance in a single turn. It's not a 100% safe manuver, but it's a nice option.

Or you can just toss a 3+/3+ one instead.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:06 pm

Or give him Catch, which is statistically more reliable (I believe) and gives you a safety net against the dreaded 1.

May as well make use of that Double, and you can give him Extra Arms later on as well to make him a real catching machine.

~Andromidius

sirsebstar · Post by **sirsebstar** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:46 pm

I would have gone for claw.. Nice one the LOS against those other big guys

fen · Post by **fen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:52 pm

Andromidius wrote:Or give him Catch, which is statistically more reliable (I believe) and gives you a safety net against the dreaded 1.

Catch doesn't work on pick ups and later on you really don't need a beastman with catch as you won't be passing the ball and will normally hand it off with reroll back up (the higher a Chaos team's TV gets the less they use rerolls.)

Catch is a big fat useless choice on Chaos, if you want to pass or catch the ball go play Elves or Humans. If you want a mutating team that passes play Chaos Pact or Underworld.

sirsebstar wrote:I would have gone for claw.. Nice one the LOS against those other big guys

That would be definately wrong, Claw is a 3rd Choice skill after you have Block and Mighty Blow.

SteffenS · Post by **SteffenS** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:07 pm

Good suggestion Fen. I'll give one Ekstra Arms and the other 3 block. I was planning on making a completion with the 5 SPP BM anyways and I might aswell make it just a pip easier.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:31 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with the Extra Arms. If you are going to ignore the doubles roll, then that would be the way to go.

Having two beastmen with Extra Arms on the team would be ideal, because then they could be a catcher/thrower combo interchangably. Give one of them a Big Hand and then you are picking up a ball on a 2+ regardless of any modifiers! Sweet! It also helps both of them to get SPPs easily with the completed passes and the TDs!

But I always think it a shame to waste a doubles roll (probably because I never seem to get them!) Have you considered Leader? Another RR is always welcome!