On the matter of Frenzy

[roysorlie]

Ok, fisrt off, I'd like to say hello to everyone here on talkbloodbowl.com!!

This is my first day, so I'm a newbie to the forum, but been playing BB since 94/95.

Greetings!!

Ok, on the subject on frenzy..
If a frenzied player pushes a player off the field, does he have to follow up.
The rules state that he has to follow up, unless the player was knocked down. But he is no longer on the pitch. Does being pushed off the field mean "knocked down"?? What about if the frenzied player gets a clean hit, and pushes the player off the field? Technically, the crown gets him in exactly the same way as if the player rolled a pushback..

I think the player should follow up in any case, but what do you say.

And please, if this has already been resolved on the forum, bear with me.

[Grumbledook]

With frenzy you always have to follow up.

And welcome

[Vesticle]

The Frenzy rule states that you must always follow up: period. Even if you know the opponent down.

What it then goes on to say is that if the frenzied player pushes someone back, and does not knock them over, then they must follow up *and* throw an additional block.

Hope that clears things up.

[roysorlie]

Thanx. I reread the rule, and it's quite clear really.
Just the skaven player who insisted it's not.

[grimfang]

he,he,he... nothing more fun than watching your frenzied player dive into the dugout after his victim!

[martynq]

Yep, and accordingly the second skill for a witch elf has to be Side Step (after Block, of course).

Cheers,
Martyn

[stone]

With frenzy you always have to follow up.

Hi!

Is there an exeption to this? I mean you can choose *not* to use a skill as well as a trait, right?

LRB p.15
Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it, and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice.
LRB p.34
The main difference between a skill and a trait is that traits are more difficult for a player to learn..... This difference aside, traits are treated just like skills, and any rules that apply to skills apply to traits also.

So therefore, if you choose *not* to use your Frenzy, you can block an opponent once and *choose* whether you follow-up or not. This is at least the way we have played it. Any thoughts?

[Grumbledook]

LRB p.15
Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it, and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice

You stated this, would have made sense to read the skill description to frenzy as well at the same time and then you would have seen that it says you must always follow up. So to reiterate, you must always follow up if you have frenzy.

[DoubleSkulls]

[quote="stoneSo therefore, if you choose *not* to use your Frenzy, you can block an opponent once and *choose* whether you follow-up or not. This is at least the way we have played it. Any thoughts?[/quote]

Normally you'd be right, but the frenzy skill description is quite clear that you must follow up and make the 2nd block.

[Nagash]

also on the matter of Frenzy...

Jervis rules that:

IMPORTANT CHANGE: Players with Frenzy must take a block or blitz action if they are standing up themselves and there is a opponent in an adjacent square. If armed with a secret weapon they may attack with that instead.

Ruled in Blood Bowl Magazine, issue 2, page 5.

[Grumbledook]

Unless that gets printed in the next annual, I don't think its official, as its not in the handbook or the lrb. Though not having the 2002 annual it may be in there, but didn't the LRB get made after bbmag2, so superceeds it?

[GalakStarscraper]

also on the matter of Frenzy...

Jervis rules that:

IMPORTANT CHANGE: Players with Frenzy must take a block or blitz action if they are standing up themselves and there is a opponent in an adjacent square. If armed with a secret weapon they may attack with that instead.

Ruled in Blood Bowl Magazine, issue 2, page 5.

Footnote: this was the old version of Frenzy. Basically anything printed in BB Mag #1 or #2 never really existed. So this statement isn't true for the current rules.

As for whether the use of Frenzy on the first block is optional or not .... that is a question I'm waiting for the BBRC to answer from the review. I've heard two VERY different opinions on this one and I'll be very curious to see the final answer from the committee.

Galak

[stone]

LRB p.15
Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it, and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice

You stated this, would have made sense to read the skill description to frenzy as well at the same time and then you would have seen that it says you must always follow up. So to reiterate, you must always follow up if you have frenzy.

OK, I stand corrected.
So here is the quote from the description of frenzy:

LRB p.35
A player with Frenzy must always follow an opponent up if they push them back. In addition, if a frenzied player pushes back an opponent without knocking them over, then they must follow up the opponent and then throw another block at them, which is worked out using the normal rules.

And just to be *absolutely* clear on this (you know we Finns tend to be somewhat hardheaded... ) in your opinion, if a player with 'Frenzy'-trait blocks an opponent and chooses *not* to use this trait, he blocks only once, and still must follow up the opponent, right? And, because he is not exactly frenzied at that point (remember, *not* using the Frenzy) does not have to throw another block.

I'm not trying to annoy you guys, it's just that i play norse team among others and really would like to play them according to what LRB 1.3 says... And I'm beginning to see the light...

[stone]

As for whether the use of Frenzy on the first block is optional or not .... that is a question I'm waiting for the BBRC to answer from the review. I've heard two VERY different opinions on this one and I'll be very curious to see the final answer from the committee.

Galak

Damn, I'm slow... This kind of clears it up -> it is not clear, right...

[Grumbledook]

No its not clear at the moment. My personal opinion on the matter is that they always have to use frenzy. So they can't just make one block, they always have to follow up and make the second block.

Its a bit like not rolling for bonehead for example :p

As to how the BBRC will see it, thats another matter, but I think you shouldn't have that control over a frenzied player, either they are frenzied or they are not.