Chaos Team - first nine games

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:50 am

It looks like the dice just don't like you (or, at least, don't like you as much as they could).

The only thing I would have done different with your team would have been Guard instead of Tackle on the one Beastman to help getting the 2-die blocks to start clearing the field, but with the elves around I can almost understand that.

Some days you are hot others you are not. On my team, I had two straight games where the minotaur got 4 casualties a game, then he did nothing for 3 games after that.

Other than the niggle on the one beastman, you aren't really all that beaten up, just not advancing as quickly as you might feel you should be. Give it a little time and that will change. It's amazing what some Block and Guard will do to turn things around. A little Claws and Mighty Blow here and there will make things all the better.

fen · Post by **fen** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:21 pm

Andromidius wrote:Though it's not going to stop me starting a Norse team - having Block on 90% of my players from the get-go is going to be luxury.

Sounds like a good plan, you'll find it easier going as the Norse team is a superior constructed team compared to Chaos.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:36 pm

Well I still have about 6 more Tournament games to go (we're ending the season with the Spike Trophy), and I'll probably have a few 'friendlies' against people I've already played, so we'll see how I do. I may suddenly hit a turning point and dominant the League...

*ahem*

~Andromidius

fen · Post by **fen** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:22 pm

Yeah, that's not likely

Your team is too far underdeveloped to even get close to the skills it needs to start dominating in that time frame (Block + Guard on 9 out of 11 players is when Chaos starts to shine).

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:50 am

Match #9 - Humans

I played my ninth game against a relatively marginally higher rated Human team yesterday. Luckily his monsterous S5 Lineman was out for the match, as was one of his Throwers. Unfortunately he'd recently bought an Ogre, who had been tearing other teams limb from limb and thus already had Multiple Block! I also had my MA7 Beastman out for this match...

For my inducements I picked a single reroll and a Bloodweiser Babe - the usual affair.

Things did not start off well. In the first half the humans got +2 FAME for the sheer number of fans that showed, won a Brilliant Coaching roll and then managed to score and put three of my Beastmen into the Casualty box (including #10, Yenlit, who was brutally murdered by the Ogre despite my attempts to use my Apothecary

) and several others in the KO box. In return I put a single Lineman into the CAS box, but caused no perminant damage. My dice rolling was average, but my opponant was constantly breaking my armour and hurling my team around like rag dolls. The highlight for me was when #6, Qze, managed an interception late in the half and stopped a second touchdown. Unfortunately he was then knocked out by a gang of Blitzers.

Second half looked shaky, as I then lost a Cheering Fans kick off result (+2 FAME working against me very harshly...). I only had 8 players standing against the human's 10. Yet despite this, the Ogre only managed to cause one more casualty (on a Chaos Warrior - no perminant damage thankfully) and scored once more. I was still unable to effectively beat the humans down (or even get in position for fouls, since most of the time my players were outnumbered and being pounded on), yet a sudden string of good luck came my way on the last few turns (with a messed up throw from the Humans) and I snuck in a single touchdown and saved myself a little face.

Results: 1 - 2
Casualties: 1 - 4
Winnings: 30k

One good thing came of this match - I got plenty of SPP's! Several completions from some short pass play during the second half, along with the touchdown, casualty and interception ment three of my Beastmen skilled up. Unfortunately I was a little tired at the time and only actually noticed one of them (yeah...), so I'll do the other two next week in front of a witness. Luckily, however, the one I did remember to roll scored a double, so I gave him Leader (since I need all the rerolls I can get!). The other two will probably get Guard (unless I roll stats or doubles, in which case I'll choose later).

With 160k saved up I decided not to buy a Minotaur (namely because I don't own a model for one at the moment, but also because Frenzy without Block is a liability, especially on a Wild Animal - I'll wait until I have more Guards to help him out). Instead I bought another reroll (120k - harsh, but needed) and a pair of Assistant Coaches and Cheerleaders (I'm fed up of giving my opponants rerolls all the time).

Things aren't looking too bad despite my huge string of losses. My team is starting to skill up, and despite the pounding I got this game it was much closer then we were expecting (Chaos outpassing Humans?). Hopefully a few extra skills and a little luck will tip the balance in my next game...

-------------------------------

#1 Chaos Warrior - 'Rend' Zrkat - Block, 9SPP
#2 Chaos Warrior - Molz'th - 2SPP
#3 Chaos Warrior - Grok - 2SPP
#4 Beastman - Vilgor *miss next game*
#5 Beastman - Reth - Leader, 7SPP
#6 Beastman - Qze - 7SPP *skill roll*
#7 Beastman - Bor - +1M, Sure Hands, Niggling Injury, 19SPP
#8 Beastman - Litzert - 10SPP *skill roll*
#9 Beastman - Ri - Tackle, 6SPP
#11 Beastman - Tylenzrq - Block, Big Hand, 22SPP
#12 Chaos Warrior - Murzull
#13 Beastman - Hulga - 2SPP

#10 Beastman - Yenlit - Dead!

Apothecary
Assistant Coaches: 2
Cheerleaders: 2
Rerolls: 4
Fan Factor: 4
Treasury: 0k
Team Rating: 147

~Andromidius

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:36 pm

Personally, with where your team is, I think Leader was a mistake.

As Fen has been preaching for a while now, the bread and butter of Chaos are the basics; Block, Guard, Tackle with a bit of Mighty Blow and a couple Claws thrown in for good measure.

If you decided to forego the Minotaur, you had enough to buy the reroll outright and give him something useful like Block or, since you rolled a double, Dodge with the intent of taking Block as a second skill.

As his stands now, he is no more survivable and, should he die or get injured, he takes one of the rerolls you are counting on with him.

fen · Post by **fen** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:30 pm

Hi! I Fixeded UR Beastmen on teh Internets!

Andromidius wrote:#6 Beastman - Qze - Block, 7SPP
#8 Beastman - Litzert - Block, 10SPP

Seriously, it sounds boring but with Chaos (and Nurgle) I can't express how important it is that you pick Block for 90% of your first skill rolls. The only way to get your Chaos team towards winning is by getting back to basics, and they don't come any more basic than Block.

Don't let other people steer you wrong, I have six successfull LRB5 Chaos Teams and two nurgle ones behind me now. I know what works when starting out.

Also, I've noticed that your Tackle guy has stunted in his growth since he got the skill. Trust me, if you had picked Block there instead he wouldn't still be on 6 SPPs.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:48 pm

Aye, and the sad thing is he's only ever 'used' the skill once - and I still rolled Pushback

Alright, Block it is. Unless I roll a stat increase, of course.

~Andromidius

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:16 pm

Andromidius wrote: Alright, Block it is. Unless I roll a stat increase, of course.

The other option is to go for the more risky Mighty Blow as a first skill since it doubled there chance of further casulties, and thus getting to the second skill.

If my Math is correct -
Casulty ~ Normal ~ MBlow
AV7 ~ 6.94% ~ 14.35%
AV8 ~ 4.63% ~ 10.03%
AV9 ~ 2.78% ~ 6.48%

fen · Post by **fen** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:32 pm

Sigh, don't go suggesting risky selections at this stage. This is a Chaos team with 1 draw and 8 losses. This is not a time for experimental suggestions or "might works".

Andromidius I realise I posted this in this thread earlier, but I want to repeat it and stress something.

Skills are in order of selection
2 Chaos Warriors - Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow
2 Chaos Warriors - Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw
1 Beastman - Block, Mighty Blow, Claw, Piling On - Bashing killer
1 Beastman - Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On - Agility killer
1 Beastman - Extra Arms, Block, Fend, Guard
1 Beastman - Sure Hands, Block, Fend, Guard
4 Beastmen - Block, Guard, Stand Firm or Prehensile Tail or Tackle (depending on the rest of the league, mix it up a little.)
1 Minotaur - Claw, Juggernaut, Break Tackle, Stand Firm (Block on Doubles means you can take Juggernaut later.)

I've played this exact plan three times now and I have less than half a dozen defeats with it. It's not flashy, in fact it's almost entirely non-doubles skills. But it is rock solid and has serious testing behind it.

Working from your list here's the next two choices I'd take next with each of your guys to get the team on track (excepting stat increases). Note: There is some variation from the template above because I've tried to adapt to fit the skills you've already chosen.

#1 Chaos Warrior - 'Rend' Zrkat - Block, 9SPP - Guard, Mighty Blow
#2 Chaos Warrior - Molz'th - 2SPP - Block, Guard
#3 Chaos Warrior - Grok - 2SPP - Block, Guard
#4 Beastman - Vilgor *miss next game* - Block, Guard
#5 Beastman - Reth - Leader, 7SPP - Block, Fend or Dodge
#6 Beastman - Qze - 7SPP *skill roll* - Block, Mighty Blow, Claw
#7 Beastman - Bor - +1M, Sure Hands, Niggling Injury, 19SPP: Block, Kick Off Return (Dodge on Doubles)
#8 Beastman - Litzert - 10SPP *skill roll* - Block, Guard, Tackle
#9 Beastman - Ri - Tackle, 6SPP: Block, Mighty Blow
#11 Beastman - Tylenzrq - Block, Big Hand, 22SPP: Extra Arms, Sure Hands (Dodge on Doubles)
#12 Chaos Warrior - Murzull, Block, Guard
#13 Beastman - Hulga - 2SPP, Block, Kick or Guard

This builds from your current choices and solidifies the backbone of your team. I know it's a lot of Block & Guard, but that's what makes Chaos good.

If I sound like I'm repeating myself somewhat here, it's just because you've been steered wrong by people in this thread. A lot of people get caught up with funky combos like VLL + Leap or Catch + Extra Arms, or overvalue Leader on a Beastman. Which is fine if you're an experienced player who's winning a lot, but it doesn't help someone who's currently in a losing slump.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:05 pm

Thanks. I'll try to bare all that in mind.

Block and Block it is then.

~Andromidius

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:59 am

I think Block gets you faster progression than MB.

You throw more blocks (less risk of turnover).
You get more knock downs (thus more armour rolls).
You get knocked down less (more blocks).

But I can't really add more to Fen's advice.

Stick with basics. Stick with Block.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:31 am

I even do most of this with my Dark Elves. The basics work. Most of my elf line get block, dodge, then the fancy stuff. Almost all of them. First thing I give blitzers: dodge. First thing I give Witch Elves: block. Why? Because it works.

When you've got a basic power team, give them the basic power skills. That's what they're designed for.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:59 am

whitetiger wrote:I even do most of this with my Dark Elves. The basics work. Most of my elf line get block, dodge, then the fancy stuff. Almost all of them. First thing I give blitzers: dodge. First thing I give Witch Elves: block. Why? Because it works.

When you've got a basic power team, give them the basic power skills. That's what they're designed for.

I agree. First few skills for most players on Chaos should be block and guard. Build a few specialists to do specific things, like a beastman ball carrier. Essentially what Fen said as well.

Same for most teams really, except with different skills. Block and Dodge for all elf races for example.