Side Step vs. Fend to stop cages

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Building a Dark Elf team for a 1.25mil tourney. I'm planning on building-up 3 linemen to be cage stoppers (i.e. prevent the cage from moving foward). I'm debating between the following skills to do that. Only two skills per lineman, as I am using the rest of the money on other stuff.

Option 1: Dodge and Side Step

Option 2: Dodge and Fend

Both will work I think, but not sure which one will be more effective. Side Step is probably better against lower strength teams as I can reposition myself to hit back or provide an assist for somebody else. Fend is probably better against bashy teams as they can't follow-up.

Grab is a very unpopular skill in my area, so I don't expect to see any player with Grab.

Juggernaut I have seen on Rat Ogres and Minotaurs once in a while, but I don't expect to see too much Juggernaut either.

Any thoughts and opinions?

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:55 pm

Fend, Fend, Fend. Sidestep isn't so useful when you're trying to slow down a cage, and won't help any against Frenzying players.

~Andromidius

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:32 pm

Fend would be better to use to stop the cage in place. Side step could be used to try to break down the front of the cage. Fend will keep your players on the field. Side step would keep them in the fight. I'm thinking that your stategy is to stop the cage in the front with linemen and then peel it from the back with blitzers or witch elves. If so, then take fend.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:36 pm

My opinion is that you are going to lose anyways, so why even bother trying!

I would go with fend. Not being able to follow up after the blitz will make a HUGE difference to those slow, grinding, cage teams.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:21 pm

I agree, Fend is better for the job. But this is just wrong..

Andromidius wrote:Sidestep ... won't help any against Frenzying players.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Side Step is the best way to kill Frenzying players. And once the Frenzy coach realizes this, they simply won't use Frenzy versus a Side Stepper.

With Side Step, you get to dictate where the frenzier goes. You get to lead him/her into contact with your assassin (or whatever berzeker/witch-elf killer your team has). The frenzier has to follow up even if they don't want to. If there's a lot of Frenzy in a league, the Side Step + (Diving) Tackle (to reduce the chances of Witch Elves dodging away after a blitz) combo pretty much guarantees that that player will never be frenzied. (Except maybe once, hopefully

)

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:48 pm

Option 3: Wrestle and Fend

Wrestle to break the cage when opponent rolls the dice!

Fend to keep cage from moving.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:39 am

I like your idea Stashman, but knowing how Cramy plays I can see his opting for dodge.

Cramy wants to have the dodge knowing that his opponent will close the cage on the players and get as many players into base contact with the cage stallers. He will then take the one blitz. When it is his turn he will dodge those players out (with the RR if needed) and move them into columns, with one player directly behind another (just in case one does happen to get knocked down).

Wrestle could actually work against him in that his player will be down, and therefore not exerting a TZ, and not causing a turnover. It could potentially open up his defense more to be exploited as more opposing players could move up more and around the downed player.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:40 am

Side Step Side Step Side Step, but only if you can do it en masse. Seven ST3 guys with Side Step is just frickin' brutal, all-but absolutely guarantees that the action will all take place on the other guy's half, and makes it very difficult to set up block chains. Fend is a poor-man's Side Step. Yeah, it shuts down OSPT while Side Step doesn't, but that requires that you be up on your opponent to use. Fend is a seriously double-edged skill on any elf team for just that reason: against the Blitz, it just costs them a square of movement, and if used against block actions you know you're doing it wrong because you're giving up the block in the first place.

I hate to say it, but I think the vast majority of coaches radically undervalue Side Step in long-season and perpetual leagues: it's one of those skills that gets exponentially more powerful the more guys have it. In addition to stopping power, it can be very demoralizing and create great dilemmas that can push your opponent into stupid mistakes and unnecessary gambles. Fend doesn't do that so much.

Side Step does protect against Frenzy, but only in terms of being able to avoid crowd-pushes or getting knocked out of position. It doesn't stop the second block, but often that's not your real objective. Yes, Fend is better vs. Frenzy, but Side Step is better in some cases even then.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:43 am

Fend will force them to open up to the side because they can't go forward. That'll give you a chance to get to the ball carrier.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:18 am

With three guys I think both would work fine.

I would take Side Step as it has more utility outside of Cage stopping.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:23 pm

Well, craigtw pretty much explained how I play defence against bashy teams. Dodge is also obviously useful on offence (as craigtw has experienced as well)

Yes, I was leaning towards Side Step. It is true that with Fend, I prevent the follow-up, but the other guy just has to use another point of movement to get in contact again. And I don't intent to give away any blocks against these guy on defence (hence the Dodge skill to dodge away), so Fend would not be useful.

And I like the Side Step against Frenzy, and Side Step against other fast teams.

Grogmir · Post by **Grogmir** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:30 pm

For me I would stick with Dodge, Block, then either, doesn't really matter.

A line of Blodgers is more likely to stop a cage then D/SS or D/Fend IMO.

sirsebstar · Post by **sirsebstar** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:14 pm

Sidestep
I'd choose sidestep voer fend because sidestep gives you a better position, even and a downed roadblock.

Fend does not really help against the blitz, since after the blitz you may still continue to move, esp a cage bliz will not have moved its full MA yet. With Sidestep, you protect yourself against frenzy(pull out of position)
places yourself nicely, (wherever you want) and even if you go down, prevent the followup into a gap(cause you are laying there)

fend?
you cant follow up. so big deal, really usefull on blokcs i assume, but against a cage you wont be in contact, assuming you are elfs