Dark Elf Team rating bloat~ How to manage it?

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:24 am

So, I play in a pretty bashy league with my developed Dark Elves. The problem is, I'm ending up with a massive TV, and I still don't have depth! I have cash, but I'm holding off on purchasing more players because I don't want to face a chainsaw every game...

Any advice on how to manage the team below? By the way, I've rolled a total of one doubles advances (in game 20!) with this team, one +MA, and 1+AG over all my advances... so that's why there's no Mighty Blow, only one guard, etc...

1- Lineman- +1AG, Wrestle, Dodge 150k
2- Lineman- Wrestle 90k
3- Lineman- Wrestle, -1MA 90k
4- Lineman- Dodge 90k
5- Lineman- Guard 100k
6- Lineman- NI 70k
7- Assassin- 90k
8- Blitzer- Dodge, Dauntless, Side Step 160k
9- Blitzer- Dodge, Kick, Leap 160k
10- Blitzer- Dodge, Dauntless, Leap 160k
11- Blitzer- Dodge, Side Step 140k
12- Witch Elf- Block, Side Step 150k
13- Witch Elf- Block, +1MA, Side Step 180k

Treasury- 190k (Not counting towards TV)
Re-rolls- 4
Fan Factor- 10
Apothecary

My league is made up of a dominant dwarf and Nurgle team, a very developed Chaos team, a developed human and vampire team, and new Khmeri, Skaven and Orc teams (all about 6 games into their life.)

I have the third highest TV in the league...

I'm thinking I need that 14th player, and maybe it would be best to dump the kick blitzer and add two more players to get there? But actually, kick is very useful for me, and I like my lineman as either fodder (no skills) roadblocks )wrestle, or mobile assists.

It also occurs to me that dropping my Wrestle, Dodge, AG 5 lineman might be the way to go. I don't really need the AG 5 99% of the time, and that's 150k, 80k of which are in advances!

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:39 am

I'd drop the -1MA Lineman. MA5 is pretty much worthless in a running team. So that'll get you 9 off your TV.

I'd also consider dropping the Niggling Lineman and replacing him with a fresh one. You can afford it, and it means he's less likely to get himself in an even worse state.

~Andromidius

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:57 am

If you drop the Assassin, you can always hire one as a Mercenary with Inducements and he does not really help against the high AV teams dominating the league.

If you can get a linesmen to skill up again give him Kick and then replace the Kick blizer so you can concentrate on combat skills for them.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:00 pm

I'd lose the both the hurt linemen and the assassin. Just replace them with fresh line.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:27 pm

I also agree with dropping the Kick Blitzer - not a overly useful skill for one of the main players on the team.

falconeyed · Post by **falconeyed** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:23 pm

Cut the 5348 Wrestle line elf because of the MA5. I've always wondered about the AG / Wrestle / Dodge guy ... what purpose does he serve in your team? If there's not a very specific role, I'd cut him also.

The problem, to a certain extent, is that your heavy lifters (the four blitzers and the two witches) are all fairly developed and dark elves are expensive to begin with. You could try to play with less than four blitzers, but that seems sort of like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The kick blitzer isn't a major issue if you change your defensive set up to actually be able to use Kick in the first place.

I think 14 players at this point is a somewhat unrealistic expectation, as all that will do is further increase your TV potential.

The other thing you have to realize is that with 50% of your team being blodgers, you have to anticipate facing a chainsaw in just about every match where the inducements allow it, especially with lower TV teams without Tackle. In our league right now, there's a LOT of bash, meaning that there's not much of a reason to take Tackle for the newer teams, particularly when there's a chainsaw available for inducing.

BloodBowlGuy · Post by **BloodBowlGuy** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:42 pm

I would dump the +1 AG lineman, the niggled lineman, and the -1 MA lineman and get three new lineman. I would also consider dumping the Kick blitzer give that skill to a lowly lineman instead.

FischerKing · Post by **FischerKing** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:53 pm

Ag 5 is very very usefull, learn to use him and he will be a valuable player for you. He now has dodge and wrestle, and that makes him a cagebuster once he gets leap that you can follow by tackle (in the unlikely event that he lives that long) Normal cagebuster has strip ball, but this one could be an alternative cagebuster for a block-sure hands invironment. You could in desperate cases use him for that allready now, as he will go into 3 tacklezones on a 4, and has a dodge rr that makes the chance of succes 75 %. Otherwise, use him to retrieve the ball when its on the ground. His low movement is against him in that, so you should learn to possition him so he can reach the cage in the place the cage will go the following round.

Kick is very usefull, but kick on a blitzer is a waist of blitzer. He is a healthy player though, so firing him seems drastic. -MA wrestle player is a good linefodder, so use him as an expendable player and dont spend apoth on him.

As others have said, the stabber isnt superusefull in a high av league, so sacking him might be wise.

You have to accept, that if you want a good darkelf team, your team will have a high teamvalue and you will have to play agaisnt inducements most your games. They might hire a chainsaw, but mostly you can take those out as some of the first you do, or simply steal the ball, score and have him expelled. They can be dangerous, but most often they arent. Ýour team needs a tackler, and you might want diving tackle on some of all those blodge sidesteppers, so you can better work down cages. Your team also REALLY needs strip ball.

Run with 13 or 14 players, thats ok for TV, and save the rest of the money for replacement players to those who will eventually die.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:16 am

falconeyed wrote:Cut the 5348 Wrestle line elf because of the MA5. I've always wondered about the AG / Wrestle / Dodge guy ... what purpose does he serve in your team? If there's not a very specific role, I'd cut him also.

he annoys the other team, mostly. I saw him as super line fodder originially. but once he picked up AG 5, I've really only used him in desperate situations (Dodges into tackle zones to take the shortest route to a ball carrier, etc.) He would be awesome with leap, but the price tag probably isn't worth it.

As for the kick blitzer... yeah, OK

The next linemen who skills up gets kick, and this guy can retire.

The MA 5 lineman has never been a problem, it's interesting how many people think he should go... I'll pay attention to him next game and see if the MA is actually having an effect.

The NI player should go eventually. I thought he would just die gracefully as line fodder, but I suppose not. It would suck to have him steal an MVP.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:04 am

Don't dump the Kick Blitzer. I'd develop him as a Safety or ILB: you need Blitzers there anyway. Don't get another Kicker -- no sense throwing good skill-ups after mediocre (I don't want to say bad: you can use it).

Dump guys and replace them, but don't go below 90-100k, as you don't want to be out a positional if something happens. I'd dump 3, 6 and 7, starting with the guy who's farthest from skill-up. You might want to fire a TRR if you're really worried about your TV edge. Getting Sure Hands on 1 or 4 might help take the edge off the lost TRR.

Frankly, though, if your problem is Chainsaws, that just means you need a more reliable defensive two-turner. Maybe replace dumped players (3, 6, 7) with Runners: no, they're not terribly impressive, but it's more shots-on-goal for the right combo on MA7, more potential two-turners, and another access category. If nothing else, you can shave 20k-40k off TV by replacing one of those guys with a Runner, skilling him to get Leader (or even Sure Hands), and firing a TRR (it's not necessarily the right plan, but a plan). Alternately, invest in Sure Hands on 1 or 4, Strip Ball on 2, 9 or 11, and/or Leap on 12, in order to grab more takeaway chances to turn the game over faster. You have enough Side Step to ensure the hit: I like that. You might want to consider getting it on two linos, too -- that way you know you have enough SS to soak up cages and make your opponent build up within your scoring range, without unnecessarily exposing your Witches.

FischerKing · Post by **FischerKing** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:46 am

Matt filled in a big hole there, GET A RUNNER! It will really help your offense. A Dump off skilled ballcarrier are really perfectly suited for the way darkelves plays offense (runner with pass, dodge, NoS and safe throw/block, or simply Block, Dodge, sure Hands) and pass-accurate-safe throw/strong arm will give you alot of options for 2 turn touchdowns.

I still say keep the ag 5, he is one of those gamewinner kind of guys. You are worried about your teamvalue and what that does to your team, but the math says that inducements, because of loner combined with the inducement prices that are a bit too high, does not make the weaker team equal to the stronger team. You want the stars/special players on your team, as long as they arent the only players on your team making spp's, they make a real differense. Player is pretty usefull now allready, and he will be very very cool with leap.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:56 pm

Matt hit most of the high points, I'd drop the same 3 players he would and replace them with funds you already have to buy and runner and line elf.

I disagree about keeping the kick blitzer though. Kick is a line elf skill; your blitzers need skills that make them better on the field. As you said, get a line elf to skill up, give him kick, and then replace the blitzer.

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:03 pm

First, make sure that your players have their optimal skill set for their roles. The more you do that, the more your TV reflects the actual power of your team. Only you can decide what's good or bad for you.

The kick Blitzer would have to eventually retire in my book. I would keep the -MA Wrestle lineman. He is great on the line. Give him dodge next, and just let him sit there and get hit by whatever is there and do the normal dodge away routine. If he dies, oh well, better him than somebody else. The niggler has no skills yet, so I would try to replace him as well. But he can be another guy for the line if you don't have the cash to replace him. Always keep enough cash to replace a positional in case he dies.

Go to 14 players. In a bashy league, it's worth it. Get a runner. Adds another dimension to the team. Get a second one if you chose to replace a lineman. These guys are your ball carriers on offence. They get pass and NoS or Accurate (I prefer accurate, useful more often than NoS). Then Dodge and whatever other skills you see fit. Some like Catch (I never tried that) to make it easier to dump-off to each other. I don't bother. Just getting the ball away is often good enough, and other skills are more useful. So your Runnsers can now throw long passes and long bombs fairly easily, and they can also run the ball and dump-off in case things go bad.

Remember, having a high TV is not a bad thing if you have selected skills that are effective. Don't try to reduce your TV just not to give inducements. That's wrong, completely wrong, IMO. You can chose to reduce your TV to make your team more efficient skill selection wise, but not to give less inducements.

You're worried about chainsaws it seems. Well, learn how to deal with them. They tend not to be too bad. Once in a while they'll cause lots of damage, but most of the time they end-up being a waste of inducements for your opponent, which is good for you.

Lineman 1 or 2 should get strip ball. Great combo with Wrestle. Leap helps after that as well.

In my experience, one of the big advantages that Dark Elves have in league play is their diversity. You end-up with 5 different types of players, with lots of varying skills and competencies. It is very hard for the opposing coach to know exactly what you will do with which player. Your challenge is to make the most out of all those different player types. Not easy to do, but if you can do that, your team becomes very hard to beat. Develop strategies to play against your opponents, and then develop your players accordingly, again, maximizing your skill selections given your chosen strategies.

I think that Dark Elves are one of the best teams out there if played well. Have fun with them. They are my favorite team, and the team that I've had the most success with.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:43 pm

I think Matt and Cramy are head on on this. Don't worry so much about the inducements against the weak teams. The chainsaw isn't that bad. He may get one of your guys, but then just blitz him and knock him down and that's the end of that. Keep your team strong for use against the other strong teams in your league. Just trim out some of the bloat and move on.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:01 pm

Really, don't ditch your AG5 player. He's costly for a reason. AG5 players on their own are a great way to divert your opponent. If you ever get a second they are match winners. AG5 means you can get anywhere. Next skill either leap or guard. Your team is a perfect example of why I would't choose wrestle as a first skill. Its a wasted skill on AG5. Also -MA is a big injury for a wrestler. Besides, players don't develop a lot by lying on the ground.