Chaos Dwarves - skill choices and purchases

Halskov1 · Post by **Halskov1** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 am

Hi I'm coaching the following Chaos Dwarf team

1 Bull +Break Tackle -AV
2 CDB + Guard + Mighty Blow
3 CDB + Mighty Blow
4 CDB + doubles skill (Claws?)
5 CDB
6 CDB
7 CDB
8 HobGob + doubles skill (Leader?)
9 HobGob + normal skill (Sure Hands?)
10 HobGob
11 HobGob

RR: 2 Apo: yes Bank: 150.000

The team recently ran into a horrendous defeat to a Khemri team, that left it with one dead and one wounded Bull Centaur (as described in the post "Chaos Dwarves vs. Khemri - advice appreciated). The following league game against Wood Elves looked pretty bad on paper, but the elves failed their re-rolled dodges and fumbled their re-rolled passes and was consequently beaten into a pulp (4-0!). For the game I induced a mercenary Minotaur (we don't allow star players) and it was one of the big stars of the game, doing a lot of damage, and only failing Wild Animal one time with no real consequenses.

Now can anybody convince me not buy a Minotaur for the winnings?

My feelings are that it can do things for the team in the short run, that the second BC won't be able to. The team is about to join a new 5-game league and that is my main consideration, though the team probably won't retire for good after that, so long term concerns are a secondary, but not irrelevant factor.

What about the skill choices for the two HobGobs and the Dwarf? I realise Mighty Blow and especially Guard would be better short term choices, but a Claws/Mighty Blow Dwarf would be a nice addittion to the tool box in a few games.

So,

Bull Centaur or Minotaur?

Guard or Claws?

Leader/Sure Hands seem pretty clear cut to me on the Hgobs, but any other suggestions for these?

Any advice is appreciated, thank you

Tarp · Post by **Tarp** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:03 pm

mino mino mino... if you know how to play aggresive enough a mino is gold worth for the CD

dont take claw unless over half your opponents are heavy AV9 teams, otherwise MB is better. Get atleast 4 guard CD, 2 with standfirm.

take dodge one the hobgoblin, block dodge and surehands makes for a very good ball carrier

always have more than one with surehands, those free rerolls are priceless

falconeyed · Post by **falconeyed** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:05 pm

Tarp wrote:mino mino mino... if you know how to play aggresive enough a mino is gold worth for the CD

dont take claw unless over half your opponents are heavy AV9 teams, otherwise MB is better. Get atleast 4 guard CD, 2 with standfirm.

take dodge one the hobgoblin, block dodge and surehands makes for a very good ball carrier

always have more than one with surehands, those free rerolls are priceless

Couldn't disagree more with the minotaur. Get the second bull and cut the -AV bull as soon as you can replace him. The minotaur is wholly unnecessary and usually ends up being the Achilles' heel in the otherwise stout CD defense. You shouldn't be even remotely considering the minotaur until you've got at least 14 players, and at that point you should still strongly consider not getting the minotaur.

The doubles on the CD - Claws.
The doubles on the hobgob - Sneaky Git or Dodge.
The regular roll on the other hobgob - Sure Hands.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:32 pm

I have to second the Claws.

You don't know when you're going to roll a double again and you can take Mighty Blow as your next skill on this guy to make him one of your can openers.

It's not optimal, but if you're looking towards any sort of long term development (more than the couple of games you mentioned), I would say it's the way to go.

jammydodger · Post by **jammydodger** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:33 pm

not a great cd coach (only half a dozen games), but i think falconeyed is on the money with his advice.
the mino is an accident waiting to happen - one good game does not a 150k price tag absolve. the centaurs are essential to the cd team (as far as i know). dwarves are good blockers, hobbo's make best (of your options) ballcarriers) and centaurs do the blitzing, occasional td, moving etc.
as for skills:
sure hands - yes
leader - yes, because with 2 rr i would feel nervous and i'm learning to be a cautious player - rerolls are better than sneaky gits, or the dodge reroll, especially with non-juggernaut / block centaurs.
as for guard or claw, i'm not sure. i was thinking guard, since its safer / continually useful, but claw is more fun. both options allow you to get stuck in and cause a ruck...
jammer

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:52 pm

The Mino is a huge crapshoot. I really like 'em when they're hot, but they're easy to neutralize with a couple of good rolls.

How bashy is your opposition? If you're dealing with at least two teams that have some AV9 and pose a serious threat (of course you are), Claw is a good choice for a Dwarf (Dauntless next [or after Mighty Blow] to build a lumberjack), and you'll get more mileage out of the BC than the Mino. I don't think you need to fire an AV8 BC with skills, but do keep in mind that you'll have to replace him someday, and remember that you may sometimes want to block guys off of him. Get him Block as fast as possible.

Leader on a Hobgob is the obvious choice, and it's hard to argue with. You do have other options, like Guard and Dodge, but Leader is probably the best. Sure Hands before Kick. I agree there.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:50 pm

I agree about the mino not being as good a big guy as it could be. I think your team would be better off with a new BC. Also, keep the wounded one. 8 AV isn't all that bad.

claws on a blocker isn't a bad idea. He can nail the other team's hard armour players. Leader is a great skill and a cheap RR. Sure hands is always a wise choice on an unskilled ball handler.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:49 am

You need two Bulls. Always have both.

The Minotaur can be extremely good or extremely bad. Once you have both bulls skilled up (Block, Break Tackle) and some guard, you'll be able to make use of the Mino a lot more... but if you rely on him, you'll lose more than you win.

But I always have one on my team. STR 5 and horns with Frenzy is a good way to protect a sideline. Better as a threat than as a blitz every turn piece, however.

As for skills? Doubles shouldn't be leader, a hobgoblin with just the leader skill isn't that great. I'd choose accurate, Pass, or Dodge with him, depending upon your playing style.

Claw is a fine doubles roll for the Chaos Dwarf, I'd actually rather put leader on him... But I think side step and diving tackle are actually better choices. If it were my team and the league was an equal mix of all teams, I'd probably ignore the doubles and go guard.

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:40 am

I've only got 1 bull at the moment, lost one recently!! I would say 2 is a must, the team plays very different with just 1. It would always be a bull over a mino in my opinion, they are better all round players with no negative traits (WA)

Question.... My remaining bull has got his 2nd upgrade recently, rolled D3 Im thinking Break tackle or Side step (he has block already) a strange option would be catch (he's on 21 SPPs, all from Tds!!) the rest of the team is well developed with guard/standfirm on the CDs and Block/dauntless on the hobgobs as well as 1 with sure hands and strong arm.
the Mino has juggernaught and break tackle (29SPPs)

Any advice welcome.
Please note i never give MB to players as a skills, it a personal choice (crazy but after 20 years in the game it works for me!!) if they have it I use it but i dont choose it as a skill upgrade ever.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:54 am

To the original caller, I'm really just echoing other posts.

Bulls are better than Minos.

Claw is a good first double (better than Diving Tackle or Side Step (my go to choices) because it's only really useful on a guy with MB, PO, Dauntless etc By getting it first you can then tailor him for the job).

I'm not sure about the Hobgoblin. I wouldn't take Dodge or a Passing Skill. So Leader is my thinking. But I'd be just as likely to take a normal skill.

glowworm wrote: Question.... My remaining bull has got his 2nd upgrade recently, rolled D3 Im thinking Break tackle or Side step (he has block already) a strange option would be catch (he's on 21 SPPs, all from Tds!!) the rest of the team is well developed with guard/standfirm on the CDs and Block/dauntless on the hobgobs as well as 1 with sure hands and strong arm.
the Mino has juggernaught and break tackle (29SPPs)

Any advice welcome.
Please note i never give MB to players as a skills, it a personal choice (crazy but after 20 years in the game it works for me!!) if they have it I use it but i dont choose it as a skill upgrade ever.

Side Step, then Frenzy: make the sidelines a dangerous place to be with a BC on one side and a mino on the other.

I am not a fan of taking MB either.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:03 am

I second PubBowler on this one. I think Sidestep on that Bull would be a real asset to your team.

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:49 am

Many thanks guys, sidestep it is....