Fumble - an odd thing happened on the way to the end zone...

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:20 pm

I was playing a rather injured dwarf team last night against undead. A bunch of players were out with Miss next game injuries from a recent dungeon bowl game. :)

Anyway, while controlling the ball but making little progress (I had 4 dwarves KOd! in the first drive!), my star runner made a desperate dodge away from 2 zombies, a ghoul, and a mummy (yikes!), and launched a short pass over a line of zombies to a pack of 4 dwarves. An AG 2 zombie intercepted the ball on a roll of 6! >:(

Ok, so the zombie tries a pass with 3 dwarves in his tackle zones and rolls a 3, fumbling the ball. The ball bounces to a dwarf 1, who fails to catch it. It then bounces to dwarf 2, who fails to catch it. It then bounces back to the zombie that dropped it, who catches it on a 6.

We played that the fumble ended the turn despite the fact that that passer ended up catching the ball.

Did we do this right?

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:36 pm

In LRB 4 and 5.

Yes, a fumble ends the turn.

But in LRB 5, if the pass had been inaccurate and the ball ended up back in the zombie's hands, it would not have been a turnover.

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:52 pm

Sorry, should have specified that we're playing LRB5. :)

Thanks! Yeah, we know that an inaccurate pass that is caught by a player on the passing team is NOT a turnover, but were slightly concerned about the situation we outlined.

Ended up being a pretty interesting game. We rolled Sweltering Heat early in the first half, and that never changed again. Both teams had guys dropping out after each drive, but the dwarves were just hammered by KOs from mummies and piles of skelies and zombies. OTOH, the deathroller managed 3 casualties (1 mummy and 2 zombies!) during it's short drive, and the dwarves ended up prevailing with a score of 1-0, and winning 3-0 in casualties. Grinder of a game, but still fun.

Thanks for the verification!

Azoth · Post by **Azoth** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:46 pm

I hope the rule is clear now: A fumbled pass ALWAYS ends the turn regardless of where the ball comes to final rest... Ansd a fumbled pass is not just an inaccurate one - it is a fumble.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:59 pm

Jural wrote: But in LRB 5, if the pass had been inaccurate and the ball ended up back in the zombie's hands, it would not have been a turnover.

and in LRB 4, 3, 2, 1 and 3rd edition...

But yes, a fumble is always a turnover.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:23 pm

GorTex wrote:
Jural wrote: But in LRB 5, if the pass had been inaccurate and the ball ended up back in the zombie's hands, it would not have been a turnover.
and in LRB 4, 3, 2, 1 and 3rd edition...

Ack, really? I have deleted my copy of LRB 4 and earlier, but I thought if a player failed a catch and it scattered back to the thrower (Who caught it) it was a turnover? I could be totally wrong on that... it's been 2 years ot more now...

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:38 pm

yea, that paragraph about turnovers in the passing section has been there since 3rd edition...(the one with the example of the ball going out of bounds, getting thrown back in, bouncing, but as long as a player from the moving team ended up with the ball, there was no turnover)

Lickety Split · Post by **Lickety Split** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:27 pm

I thought it was anyone but the Thrower too.

skritter · Post by **skritter** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Lickety Split wrote:I thought it was anyone but the Thrower too.

Where do you get that? The thrower is on that team. No turnover.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:16 am

skritter wrote:
Lickety Split wrote:I thought it was anyone but the Thrower too.
Where do you get that? The thrower is on that team. No turnover.

Odds are that no everyone has memorized all of the unlikely scenarios that can occur in Blood Bowl. I always thought that when the ball bounced on the ground during a pass action, it was immediately a turnover... however this is simply not the case.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 pm

Many people think that..one of the reasons I know about the turnover rule..it's one paragraph that perfectly explains when the turnover happens after a pass (ie..once the ball stops moving)....but it's location is out of the way at the end of the Throwing section and many people overlooked/skimmed it.

Buggrit · Post by **Buggrit** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:00 pm

IIRC - Fumble = Turnover, even if your thrower then catches it after he's dropped it. He's still fumbled the ball which causes a TO.
When passing it's not a turnover until the ball has come to a complete stop and is not in the possession of the moving team.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:17 pm

yep, that has been agreed upon (fumble = turnover no matter what)...but the discussion moved on to non-fumbled passes and when the turnover occurs (and what that rule has been in previous editions).

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:19 pm

Here's a question: if you roll a fumble and then reroll it, does the fumble still count since the turn automatically ends after a fumble?

One player in my league argued this and ended up costing me the game...

~Andromidius

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:27 pm

Andromidius wrote:Here's a question: if you roll a fumble and then reroll it, does the fumble still count since the turn automatically ends after a fumble?

One player in my league argued this and ended up costing me the game...

~Andromidius

No, that's crazy talk! No result is final in Blood Bowl until the re-roll has been made. If you roll a 1 on a pass, then use your pass re-roll to roll a 6, the turn doesn't end unless the ball ends up in the hands of the other team or on the ground.

But obviously if that second result is a 1, you really have fumbled.