Orcs: Who gets Kick?

[mattgslater]

OK, so here's my predicament. I never needed Kick on Orcs before, and I don't need it now, but I want it, at least eventually. Who gets it?

4x BOB: Two play on the line. The other two need Block and Stand Firm (or, even better, Side Step) and don't exactly hog the TDs.

4x Blitzer: Three play in the wide zone, and the other is a hunter, so needs Tackle, Mighty Blow, and if possible Frenzy or Stand Firm. They get points fast, but it's all spoken for.

2x Thrower: One needs Leader and Block; the other Accurate and Kick-Off Return (and he mostly plays O only anyway). Possible 3rd selection for #1 Thrower, but that takes awhile.

1x Troll: Er, no.

2x Linemen: One gets Dirty Player, so isn't so useful with Kick (he tends to camp out in the WZ anyway, so my hunter can range farther). It would be an ok second selection on him, but he gets ejected a lot.... The other lino is a benchwarmer and will probably not go up. If he does, he gets Block so he can fill in invisibly.

1x Goblin: Not an option.

So who gets Kick?

A) the Dirty Player, on roll #2 (that is, several games)
B) the safety Blitzer, on roll #3 (several games, as he's my #3 developer among Blitzers)
C) the safety Thrower, on roll #3 (several games, even though he's #1 among Throwers)
D) the backup lino, on roll #2 (never, really)
E) Who needs to kick? just block!

[Jural]

Hmm, with my orcs, I try not to field throwers or goblins on defense, leaving me with two linemen on the pitch. My first linemen gets dirty player, my second lineman gets kick.

I like both my throwers to have Kick-Off Return and Block, but my first thrower picks up KoR then Leader then Block, my second thrower Accurate then Block then KoR.

Anyway, on to you. I don't like the skill on a BoB or a Blitzer, because Guard, Block, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Tackle, Stand Firm, Strip Ball are all better choices, and you need aminimum of two of each, and 4X Block on the BoB. I also would prioritize 4X guard and 4X Mighty Blow... so that's 20 advances spread over 8 players and I think you want at least a few three skill combo players before you add in block... that's like the third player to get to three skill territory, maybe Game 15 if you are lucky? Which I think is too late for orcs (and doesn't account for attribute increases and doubles rolls.)

Here;s what I would do: Your second lineman to skill up should get Kick. He shouldn't play most of the time, only on those drives where you are down a key player or need the kick skill. Then when your defensive thrower reaches his third or 4th advance, give him Kick and cut the lineman. Your third lineman to advance (imagining you carry three, should go down your standard route.

If the Kick lineman accidentally advances in the meantime, give him block and he's ideal.

[Cramy]

Kick to the lino without Dirty Player. He gets fielded on defence only. Block on him first though. So he'll get to 16 SPP eventually if he gets enough MVPs. ... Luckily, Kick ain't that useful for Orcs, so not such a big deal.

[stashman]

I like to put the kick close to LOS and push the opponent to make a fast TD. And if its a fast team in the last turns, get it down the field.

[DoubleSkulls]

I love kick as a skill, but on Orcs I think there are better choices.

Nowadays I'd probably forget DP initially - have two line orcs give them both wrestle first, one gets kick 2nd, the other DP.

[PubBowler]

I love kick as a skill, but on Orcs I think there are better choices.

Nowadays I'd probably forget DP initially - have two line orcs give them both wrestle first, one gets kick 2nd, the other DP.

This sums up my feelings.

[SillySod]

The unskilled lineman without a doubt. I'd give both block and one DP, the other kick. It depends on how many more games you expect the team to play as to whether you go for block or the utility skills first.

I'd favour block over wrestle because orc linemen are good for tying things up, you dont want them to go down because they are quite slow and it opens up space that as an orc you dont really want opened up. I can see plenty of use in a wrestling lineorc to bring down ball carriers (although they are slow and unagile) but if this is your aim then I'd take wrestle then strip ball and ignore the utility skills.

[DoubleSkulls]

I'd just take wrestle on the line orcs because its a useful skill to have, and who else would you give it to? Blitzers already have block so wrestle is a waste, BOBs need to stay upright more than line orcs and throwers definitely don't want to go prone afterwards.

I'd probably take tackle over strip ball. Wrestle, tackle - backed up with DP - should make a lot of blodgers cringe.

[mattgslater]

Nowadays I'd probably forget DP initially.

House rules favor DP over the way LRB5 works, so let's stipulate a DP.

I generally field this defense: I spread it out for fast teams. I have a nickel D that I use on Wood Elves (shifting L1 to Mike [behind the Troll] and Z4 to Z3, so Z3 can become a deep safety) when (eventualy) B1 and B2 both hit their second skills (Block/SF)

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- B3 TR B4 -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- Z4 --|-- B1 -- -- -- B2 --|-- L1 -- --
-- Z1 -- --|T1 -- -- -- -- -- Z3|-- -- Z2 --

Not in base D: Thrower 2, Lino 2, Goblin

[whitetiger]

I'd give Kick to a second lino and switch him into the defense for the thrower. give him block-kick-tackle or strip ball.

[mattgslater]

I could give Kick to Lino #2, but he ain't going up twice so it would be his only skill. I'm also leery of dropping the Thrower off my defense, especially late in the half, when I may need the SH or Pass to pull off a 2-3 turner?. I'm concerned it'll get in the way of my development by making it harder to run up the score (winning 5-0 with elves is nice but ordinary: winning 5-0 with Orcs gives you real bragging rights, though it doesn't exactly win you any friends).

Hmmm... by the time that Lino #2 (not on starting roster, professional benchwarmer) skills up once, Thrower 1 will probably have Block (improvement #2), right? This set-up would work well when the DP gets ejected or if I've already rung their bell and just need to hammer the end zone for SPPs for several turns.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- B3 TR B4 -- --|-- -- -- -- 
-- -- Z4 --|-- B1 -- -- -- B2 --|-- T1 -- -- 
-- Z1 -- --|L2 -- -- -- -- -- Z3|-- -- Z2 --

Oh, and here's my development plan: I'll get in 14-16 games. Unless noted otherwise, 10 is +MA, 11 is +AG, 12 is +ST.

Black Orcs: Block, Stand Firm. Doubles: Side Step (and becomes 1 or 2 no matter what). Take skill on 10, 11. Probably one or two will improve twice, and one or two will improve once, for a total of about 5 skills.
Blitzers: 1, 2: Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Guard. Doubles: Dodge. 3: Tackle, Mighty Blow, Frenzy. Doubles: Diving Tackle. 4: Guard, Frenzy, Stand Firm. Doubles: Dodge. Probably one will get to 4 improvements and two will get to 3, for a total of 12 or so improvements.
Throwers: 1: Leader, Block. Doubles: Ignore or Dodge. 2: Kick-Off Return, Accurate. Doubles: Strong Arm or Ignore. Either might well improve twice, probably for a total of 3-4 improvements.
Troll: Guard, Stand firm. Doubles: Block. Take skill on 10, 11. Might improve 2-3 times.
Goblin: Catch, Sure Feet. Doubles: Nerves of Steel. Take skill on 12. 1-2 improvements max.
Lino 1: Dirty Player, Block. Doubles: Guard. 10+ or doubles eliminates DP. 2 improvements likely.
Lino 2: Block. Doubles: Guard. Might improve once, for a total of 4 improvements between both linos and the goblin.

Total expected improvements: 27 in 16 games... that's about right. I might actually do a little better. But that's the plan if I don't budget for Kick (which I usually don't).

[whitetiger]

I still think that being able to place the ball is a good thing. I see where you would have problems putting it into your team. You have lots of positionals that really need other skills and you're right about not being able to build a lino into the skill. But it looks like you've got some good ideas on team building. The next team I run is probably going to be Orcs. I'll take some of your ideas.

[Master Wang]

I've just started running an orc team and I doubt I'll get kick on anyone. Not having it won't affect my game plan and, as you've shown, there just isn't space for it anywhere.

Your setups and skill progressions have given me food for thought - I was going to go with a lot more guard than you seem to be doing. Out of curiosity, how are you doing those setup diagrams?

[mattgslater]

I've just started running an orc team and I doubt I'll get kick on anyone. Not having it won't affect my game plan and, as you've shown, there just isn't space for it anywhere.

Your setups and skill progressions have given me food for thought - I was going to go with a lot more guard than you seem to be doing. Out of curiosity, how are you doing those setup diagrams?

Yeah, I'm just trying to be cute, or I wouldn't do Kick.

The diagrams are with the code function, either at the top of the bar or just the html code (the word "code" in brackets).

Stand Firm roolz on Orcs: it prevents separation by fast receivers off of a blitz, which is an Orc team's defensive Achilles heel. Just like Dwarfs get free Block and have to work for Guard, Orcs get (in practice) free Guard, but have to work for Block. The difference is that Orcs can effectively get Guard twice: once in the statline of the guy making the block, and once from the guy next to him. However, ST5 vs. ST3 isn't a big deal, and blocking your way to assists is just as good as Guard vs. occasional +ST players. So as easy as it is for Orcs to load up on Guard, it's really a late skill to keep ahead, rather than an early skill to catch up (like it is on Dwarfs).

If you're really worried about Khemri, ignore all of this and take lots of Guard. Vs. anybody else, you hit harder already, and can build for development. Stand Firm on BOBs has a huge impact on the size of the field, and ultimately that's what yields victories and SPP. Side Step is even better, because a single Juggernaut can open up a linebacker with SF, but that's just another reason to develop a Dirty Player.

[Newbie511]

I'd give it to the unskilled lineman. I don't know why you'd have two throwers on the field on defense anyway.

Heck, I rarely have two throwers on the field on offense. I'd rather have the extra armor point and move my cage to the ball than have two orc throwers.

I might even give it to the backup lino on roll #1. Especially if everyone else is skilled up. But I know that's crazy talk.