LRB5 Amazon Accounting.

[Newbie511]

I'm new to LRB5 and this site so I'll apologize if this has been discussed before. I did a search and couldn't find it.

I find it odd that, on an Amazon team, a blizer is worth 90K whereas a linewoman with block is worth 70K towards the team value.

Both players would be 6/3/3/7/Dodge,Block

It would be very easy to see how two teams with identical stat lines would have different team values and be entitled to different inducements.

Example,
I start out with 11 linewomen and 4 skill up with block = Team Value $630K
You start out with 7 linewomen and 4 blitzers = Team Value $710K

That's a considerable price difference for absolutely identical teams.

It seemed that all of the other position players on other teams are "on sale"... that is an elf thrower is cheaper (same stat line as a lineelf) than a lineelf who has skilled up.

Of course, the blitzer would skill up faster as it hadn't yet used it's first skillup but that doesn't make a difference on the field for inducements. It just seems that in an infinite league (Like if Fumbbl was LRB5) it might make sense to keep your team value down by ditching the Amazon Blitzers in favor of upgraded linemen.

I just thought it was odd that Amazons seemed to be the only team to have upgraded linemen worth less team value than the position players they'd upgraded to.

[stashman]

The BIG diffrence is that Blitzers have access to Strength skills. And you will need Guard, Mighty Blow etc.

[Jural]

I think it's completely a value issue. Some players are worth more than their calculated value on pitch. By the old player calculation formulas, the player should really be worth only 60k (6 3 3 7 is 40k, and each skill 10k)!

However, starting with Blodge and having access to Strength skills on a 0-4 positional make the pieces much better. Plus the team as a whole performs quite well (or used to, I am not sure what is happening in LRB 5.)

The team is quite affordable anyway, so the extra 80k-120k being put into the blitzers is not as big of a deal.

Unless the team is playing dwarves, in which case they are a bunch of overcosted hobgoblins with no chaos dwarves or bull centaurs or minotaurs to help them out!

[GalakStarscraper]

I think it's completely a value issue. Some players are worth more than their calculated value on pitch. By the old player calculation formulas, the player should really be worth only 60k (6 3 3 7 is 40k, and each skill 10k)!

Jural the formula for players is 50k - 20k for AV 6 +20 Block + 20k for Dodge which is 70k. (skills are 20k not 10k)

However starting with the Block + Dodge gives an extra 20k bonus to cost of a player

Which yields the 90k cost.

Galak

[Jural]

I think it's completely a value issue. Some players are worth more than their calculated value on pitch. By the old player calculation formulas, the player should really be worth only 60k (6 3 3 7 is 40k, and each skill 10k)!

Jural the formula for players is 50k - 20k for AV 6 +20 Block + 20k for Dodge which is 70k. (skills are 20k not 10k)

However starting with the Block + Dodge gives an extra 20k bonus to cost of a player

Which yields the 90k cost.

Galak

Sorry, doing it all from memory... and I used a hobgoblin turned into a amazon blitzer and a wood elf linemen turned into a wardancer to do it!

Hobgoblin- 40k + block (10k) + dodge (10k) + blodge premium (20k) = 80k (rounded up to 90 for no reason)

Wood Elf linemen (70k) + block (10k) + dodge (10k) + blodge premium (20k) + leap (10k) +1 MA (20k) = 140k... or 120k after 50% discount over 100k...

With 20k skills, my hobgoblin becomes 100k as an amazon blitzer, and my Wardancer should be 130 or 140k!

(But I'm clearly wrong here. It's very difficult to make many of the players on the original teams make sense with 10k skills.)

EDIT: Found the formula. Apparently hobgoblins have always been overcost by 10 points, and the wardancer is the bane of anyone who has ever tried to cost out a player! Interestingly, the work implies block is actually always 30k and block +dodge is +10k... so I must have found something different from what Galak has. But still, good guidelines.

[mattgslater]

Formula schmormula. Amazons get a great deal on linos, and in return, get a weak deal on positionals.

Blitzers effectively pay 40k for a) a jump on SPP (one more top-tier skill than otherwise) and b) a category of access (S). That's not worth 40k. But that's ok, because a Hobgoblin with Dodge is worth more than 50k. Plus, S access and starting Blodge is huge: Guard + Stand Firm on that player makes for all kinds of crazy dilemmas, with no doubles required! Take Guard first, in case you roll doubles on #2: Side Step reduces your girl's vulnerability in ways that Stand Firm doesn't, but both are headache recipes.

Also, having players who start with Block means you can build Block/Tackle right away, and in this case you can follow it with Mighty Blow.

I think Amazon Throwers and Catchers are actually far inferior to the Blitzers, even though they both provide a usable skill and a category on a basic lino package, and the Blitzers are more expensive. The Catchers bring a decent category, but it's already been cherry-picked. The Thrower brings a good skill, but it's hard to argue that she compares favorably to the Orc Thrower, putting her clearly a step (or more) behind the more elite Human/Skaven/Pro Elf throwers, who are in fact the same price.

[DDogwood]

(But I'm clearly wrong here. It's very difficult to make many of the players on the original teams make sense with 10k skills.)

I always thought that Block was worth 20k as a starting skill.

[Jural]

(But I'm clearly wrong here. It's very difficult to make many of the players on the original teams make sense with 10k skills.)

I always thought that Block was worth 20k as a starting skill.

Galak said all skills are, although I bet some skills (horns and thick skull come to mind) are counted as 10k. There is a darn formula somewhere, and I just must be using the wrong searches 'cause I can't find it. As I recall, the formula gets almost all the positionals in BB right within 10k, with some interesting exceptions.

[DDogwood]

(But I'm clearly wrong here. It's very difficult to make many of the players on the original teams make sense with 10k skills.)

I always thought that Block was worth 20k as a starting skill.

Galak said all skills are, although I bet some skills (horns and thick skull come to mind) are counted as 10k. There is a darn formula somewhere, and I just must be using the wrong searches 'cause I can't find it. As I recall, the formula gets almost all the positionals in BB right within 10k, with some interesting exceptions.

The formula I know of is listed here:

http://www.blood-bowl.net/JervisRules/Jervis4.html

You're right, it values every skill at 20k. It also adds a 'premium' to skills like Block, though, which is where I got my idea that Block is worth more than a regular skill.

[Quadrasonic]

Starting with 4 blodgers is HUGE in the right environment. Amazons do very well in short leagues and in tournaments.

They tend to suffer over the long run, though, mostly due to their low AV.

As far as the price goes, the Amazon Blitzers are the only players aside from Wardancers to start with Block and Dodge and are far cheaper. So count your blessings, Man.

[whitetiger]

Blitzers starting with blodge are going to stay alive a lot longer than the average linewoman. And with strength access, they're going to be doing a lot more damage. A starting lino with only dodge is a lot more likely to get damaged or killed before she can skill up.

[plasmoid]

Quodrasonic said:

Starting with 4 blodgers is HUGE in the right environment. Amazons do very well in short leagues and in tournaments.

Short leagues, they do OK.
Tournaments not so much. IMO dwarfs are too popular a tournament choice to leave any room for amazons to do well.

Cheers
Martin

[GalakStarscraper]

Short leagues, they do OK.
Tournaments not so much. IMO dwarfs are too popular a tournament choice to leave any room for amazons to do well.

Cheers
Martin

And yet Lucifier proves this opinion incorrect at every event he chooses to.

Galak

[DDogwood]

Short leagues, they do OK.
Tournaments not so much. IMO dwarfs are too popular a tournament choice to leave any room for amazons to do well.

I dunno, a typical Dwarf or Chaos Dwarf tourney team only has 5-6 players with Tackle, compared to 11+ Dodge players on the Amazon side. Amazons are also faster and better at handling the ball. They don't do as well against Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs as they do against some other teams, but it's not like they're completely hopeless.

[whitetiger]

'Zons are a good team coming out of the box. 4 blodgers, a built in passing game, linos with a good starting skill. All teams have other teams they don't do as well against. But there's no reason 'Zons can't do well in a tourney. Not with the skill set they start with.