minor change to the kickoff table.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:55 pm

Ok, the BLITZ result is the most powerful result on the board....and 10 is not TOO uncommon.

Why don't BLITZ, and THOW A ROCK switch their respective numbers?

It'd would decrease the frequency of blitzes......which is good.

Thoughts?

Der_Doodle · Post by **Der_Doodle** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:02 pm

Then you would have to change the perfect Defense aswell.

Blitz 10 - Perfect Defense 4. Same chance to roll for it.
If you push Blitz to 11 you have to push Perfect Defense to 3 aswell to keep stability in it.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:29 pm

Der_Doodle wrote:Then you would have to change the perfect Defense aswell.

Blitz 10 - Perfect Defense 4. Same chance to roll for it.
If you push Blitz to 11 you have to push Perfect Defense to 3 aswell to keep stability in it.

?

Edit: I'm in favour of the table as it is... but "?" anyway.

DDogwood · Post by **DDogwood** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:45 am

Der_Doodle wrote:Then you would have to change the perfect Defense aswell.

My opinion is that Blitz! is a lot more powerful than Perfect Defense in most situations.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:44 am

I don't see perfect defence being NEARLY as brutal as a blitz, but I wouldn't see a problem with moving PD.

Don't get me wrong SillySod, It's not like the table is anywhere NEAR being unplayable, broken or unbalanced. I just think that Blitz would be better suited to a rarer number, as It's easily one of the biggest game changers....

As it stands, I find the Blitz result to be so frequent, that it's almost anticlimactic. (Sigh, blitzed again....what a surprise)

I contrast that to the rarity, (and more random nature) of a significant pitch invasion, where nothing is certain until the dust settles.

...Maybe it's just me

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:58 am

DDogwood wrote:
Der_Doodle wrote:Then you would have to change the perfect Defense aswell.
My opinion is that Blitz! is a lot more powerful than Perfect Defense in most situations.

I agree with this.

I'm 50/50 on moving Blitz.

It is relatively common for the amount of time it turns up but it's secondary role (and one I'd like to see it keep) is to force a team to consider it and spread their formation.

If it's rarer, that'll happen less.

The only thing I want changing is riot to +/-1 turn.
I hate loosing 3 turns.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:16 am

On the new blitz I'm not so sure. When you are stronger and slower perfect D is often much more powerful than blitz.

Also throw a rock can be pretty nasty - its a 15/36 chance of getting someone off the pitch.

Purplegoo · Post by **Purplegoo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:50 am

I think there are far more pressing concerns on the KO table than blitz! . Sure, it's powerful, but the offence has such an advantage, it's not so bad to have the odd blitz! in there to throw a spanner in the works every so often.

Talk Riot or High Kick, and you'll have my ear.

fire olli · Post by **fire olli** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:14 pm

I think that it might be worth while putting more options on the kick off table. You could use a D16 or a D20.

Not sure what i would add though

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:10 pm

fire olli wrote: You could use a D16 or a D20.

Over GWs dead body - I'm surprised they haven't started using a hex board so they can do away with the d8!

DDogwood · Post by **DDogwood** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:44 am

ianwilliams wrote:On the new blitz I'm not so sure. When you are stronger and slower perfect D is often much more powerful than blitz.

I know that there are some situations where Blitz! may be less powerful than Perfect Defense, but I think that those situations are relatively uncommon. If you're stronger and slower, there's a good chance you only have 3 guys on the LoS and the rest of your team is spread out, so Blitz! lets you rearrange your defense fairly substantially anyways.

I've never seen a Perfect Defense that let the defense take a key offensive player off the pitch, or let the kicking team grab the ball and cage it up. A lucky Blitz! can make or break a match, but a Perfect Defense usually just adds a turn or two to the offensive drive.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:08 am

OK, I understand Riot being a MAJOR irritiation...but what's the beef with high kick?

Purplegoo · Post by **Purplegoo** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:45 am

grampyseer wrote:OK, I understand Riot being a MAJOR irritiation...but what's the beef with high kick?

I don't know if High Kick annoys me in a realism or gameplay sense more.

For the aspect of realism (listen - I know we're playing a game of fantasy here where players can kill themselves 'going for it', so I realise it's not supposed to be 100% realistic), when have you ever seen a high kick in sport that's an advantage to the offence (or receiving guy)? It's a tactic employed by the kicking team to get enough hangtime so they can go and murder the poor sap under the ball, or at least advance up the pitch together as the ball falls from the heavens. Also, if you're kicking the thing high - it won't go as far. Sticking the ball in the corner _and_ high up is pretty nigh on impossible.

From a gameplay sense, we're to believe a defence can act swiftly enough to totally reorganise, to have an entire first turn, or an offence can all move a square upon kickoff, but whilst the pigskin hangs for the longer period, everyone stops and watches apart from one guy? It's not like the offence need any more advantages in the game anyway, you are expected to score...

It just really irritates me. I don't like (for instance) Dorfs getting the chance to field my specifically placed kick with greater ease, or Elves basically getting a touchback either. I like the Kick skill, when HK happens, it's basically nullified, or at least greatly less effective. Doesn't it basically make KOR a waste if you've chosen that too?

Now, I realise Bad Kick was perhaps worse on all fronts. If I were rewriting the rule, I'd say that upon a High Kick all players not in a tacklezone could move a square, defence first. Like a Quick Snap for all. Plus, the kick moves half the distance rolled to reflect the difference of the kick.

Rant (and thread hijack!) over. I've no idea if this gets under anyone else’s skin or whether I'm alone, but it's all good.

And yeah..... Riot is an abysmal result. Not a bright idea.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:29 pm

The deal with the kickoff table is that there is no one result that works best, it is all situational. PD is much better for a slow strong team than Blitz, and vice versa for a fast, agile team. Riot or GTR can win games single handed, or be worthless. Equally, one extra re-roll from Coaches could easily swing a game.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:56 pm

I never had a problem with Bad Kick, in fact I much prefer it to High Kick. At least you could still apply a skill to it.