Re-Rolls and overtime

OdoGoodgrubb · Post by **OdoGoodgrubb** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:54 am

I don't think any new wording is required. When making any literary interpretation, one needs to take the text as a whole into consideration rather than just a line here or there. And while there may be some problems with that for certain topics in Blood Bowl, for this topic the rules seem perfectly clear.

--Standard (team and leader) re-rolls renew at the start of the second half
--Should the game go into an overtime period, any standard re-rolls from the second half carry over into the overtime period
--Kick-off table re-rolls must be used in the half they are awarded
--Each overtime period of eight turns is considered a new "half"

juergen · Post by **juergen** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:23 am

if it would be that clear, then this discussion wouldn't take place.

Why not add a single sentence like "RR gained for Brilliant coaching/cheering fans/... carry/don't carry into overtime" to the overtime section? then you have everything you need to know in one place.

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:13 pm

For me its pretty clear that ALL rerolls can be used in overtime. Regualr, leader and bonus. Would not even think, about not using them all.

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:04 pm

I think the RR's carry over to overtime, as the rules state.

There is no 'special' RR counter for Kickoff RR's. And I know I wouldn't want to have to keep track of what kind of RR that is without a specific counter.

At Halftime, it's easy, just set your RR track to your team's number of RR's (plus leader if any).

Then when Overtime happens, you don't reset anything, just keep the RR's on the RR track as they are. Simple, no fuss about which one's came from the KO table or anything.

spectre1 · Post by **spectre1** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:04 pm

To take it directly from the LRB5 "Any re-rolls still remaining at the end of the second half are carried over and may be used in overtime, but teams do not receive new allocations of re-rolls as they normally would at the start of a new half." I would think the word ANY settles the discussion no matter how we look at it.

Cheers
Spectre1

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:23 am

It's a pretty simple fix, I think. Just state that kick-off re-rolls expire at half-time.

Since halftime doesn't happen after the second half, the kick-off re-rolls don't expire.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:46 am

Darkson wrote:Ian, not really disagreeing, but on what basis? Because if you allow the bonus rerolls to carry over from the 2nd half to overtime, why can't you carry the bonus over from the 1st to the 2nd?

I'm not really arguing the rules as written, but my feeling. IMO the reroll ought to carry over into extra time - largely because that feels right to me not because of anything in the rules. Since the rules are vague and contradictory I don't feel that bound to what is written.

Darkson wrote:* Note: I'd actually prefer the bonus rerolls to carry over to overtime [and indeed, from the first to second half], but I don't think that's how it reads.

Actually that makes sense because it would mean meaningless kick offs at the end of the first half have a much higher chance of impacting the game.

One issue might be at the end of the half then identifying which rerolls carry over and which don't. How would you suggest distinguishing between cheering fans rerolls and other rerolls?

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:23 pm

When we play, we always use the cheering fans/brilliant coaching rerolls first. That way, no question. Just keeps it simplier.

As for carry over into overtime, both of the kick-off table gifts state the team gets a reroll "this half". Once the half is over, the reroll goes away.

Personally, I think Leaders rerolls ought to renew.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:12 pm

To me the easiest solution to this is to better clarify overtime. I believe the intention was that any (just like it says) re-rolls left (from any source ... again that word "any")) at the end of the 2nd half carries over to the overtime if you play it.

So the solution seems easy enough to have the rule say:

"Any re-rolls still remaining at the end of the second half (including re-rolls earned from Kick-off events or Special Play Cards) are carried over and may be used in overtime."

Leader would not need to be specifically mentioned because it already says in the skill that it carries over to Overtime.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:29 pm

ianwilliams wrote:One issue might be at the end of the half then identifying which rerolls carry over and which don't. How would you suggest distinguishing between cheering fans rerolls and other rerolls?

Personally? I used miniatures for rr counters, so it's easy.
In the rules? I'd probably say use a different colour counter (blue if you're red and visa-versa) to represent the "bonus" rerolls.

But I'm happy with just a clarification for OT (as a side note, we don't play OT [for time issues] except for finals - in our last but one league, this change would have meant I had a reroll going into OT, and my AG4 skink might have got that ball...

).

juergen · Post by **juergen** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:48 am

So the solution seems easy enough to have the rule say:

"Any re-rolls still remaining at the end of the second half (including re-rolls earned from Kick-off events or Special Play Cards) are carried over and may be used in overtime."

Sounds good, I hope to see this wording in LRB 6