LRB5 short-term development for a Skaven team

[kiih]

I've just played my first league game ever under LRB5 in a 5-match mini-league. More info on the league can be found here:

viewtopic.php?t=25172

I decided to go with the following starting roster

2 Blitzers
4 Gutter Runners
5 Linemen
3 RR
Apothecary

I played against Undead, and won 2-1. Took 5 casualties, but luckily only one Niggling/Miss Next Game (a lineman). None of my players skilled up. I now have 80 000 gp and a 10-player roster for the next match. I'll be playing against Dwarves or Humans.

The question is, what should I do? Could it be beneficial not to hire any players and get a Journeyman Lineman? If he dies/gets injured (pretty likely for a Skaven Lineman), that's totally fine since he hasn't cost any money. OTOH, if he gets SPP and doesn't get injured, I'll just hire him. I've never played with a Loner on my team, but I'd imagine its not that bad.

The second option would be to buy the Lineman. The only benefit I see here is that he wouldn't have Loner.

The third option is to buy a Thrower. After all, he's just a lineman with two skills (and not bad skills at all). The downside of this is that I'd have only 10k in the bank and still only 11 players. If even one misses the next game/dies, I'll be in the same situation as now. Plus, I'll probably have less money than now. Also, my team value would go up more.

My initial thought was to bank the 80k I have now, get a Journeyman and depending on how it goes, hire or fire him. In addition to the hiring of a Lineman (possibly the Journeyman), I'd purchase a 12th player (Lineman or Thrower, depending on the winnings).

Also, I could hire coaching staff. In the first game there were 3 kick-offs that would have benefited from AC/CL.

I'd make this into a poll but there are just too many options

I'm looking for your opinion, along with possible explanations as to why (but they're totally optional).

Thanks!

[voyagers_uk]

my advice - take it with caution

take the Journeyman
buy 2ac
buy 1cl

keep 50 on ice in the treasury

that is your safety net to start rebuilding your team after the destruction by the Dwarves

[PubBowler]

Worth checking if the Dwarf team has advanced at all.

You may be better off by not taking the journey =man and using the inducement cash to get a merc thrower with leader, a merc rat ogre or one of the star players.

Or even extra apoths and babes...

[whitetiger]

I disagree with both. Get the thrower to start skilling him up. You're gonna wanna get him eventually anyway. Take him now so he can get the ball to the gutter runners. The thrower comes with sure hands and pass. You won't have to waste team rerolls trying to pick up the ball. That'll save the rerolls for the hand off/catch or for missed blocks.

[Master Wang]

Is the team going to continue into another season? If not, I disagree about needing the thrower as you only have 4 more games to play, right? I'd save the money and get a journeyman unless your next team warrants some inducments in which case go with PubBowler's suggestion.

[kiih]

Is the team going to continue into another season?

Actually it is. I didn't make it clear in the post but this team will see other mini-leagues like this one. The Dwarves haven't advanced at all, and I'm still not sure whether I'm playing them or Humans next match.

How about the journeyman and then a merc lineman as well (with the inducements?) At least I'd have an extra player.

Or just thrower all the way?

Thanks for your input!

[Ullis]

You won't be getting any inducements as the journeyman counts as 50k, the same as a normal linerat.

[Master Wang]

Given that the team will have life after this league, I'd get the thrower. His high movement and the fact that you shouldn't need him to go over the halfway-line means he should survive this match.

[whitetiger]

Once again, I agree. The thrower comes with pass and sure hands so that'll save team rerolls on ball handling to use for blocks and such. And he'll start getting SPPs.

[kiih]

I decided to go with the thrower, even though I now know I'm facing the Dwarves. I wouldn't be getting any inducements anyway. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping he'll survive.

/THREAD DRIFT (I feel this doesn't warrant a whole new post)

I'm playing against the Dwarves tomorrow and having never played against Dwarves, I'm looking for advice. SPECIFICALLY Skaven tactics against Dwarves.

My gut instinct would be to dodge away from his TZs at the end of my turn (after higher-priority actions). I'm also tempted to flare out my Gutter Runners all over the pitch and try to make lots of hand-offs so it'll be difficult for him to keep up. Sound any good? Any other general tips?

Getting more specific now. My offensive setup will probably consist of a two-point entry to his half (one from the LoS and the other by blitzing a wide zone). The defensive setup is a bit trickier, at least for me. Should I go with a tight LoS like this

__ooo__

or with a loose one like this

_o_o_o_

Both have their benefits, as I see it.

Only linemen on the LoS, of course, and no players within one square of the halfway line (to protect against quick snap). I'm not really sure about the rest of the team. Should I have the GRs two squares from the halfway line or behind stronger players? OTOH, they could better make use of a hole in the offensive line if they were closer, but then again they would attract blitzes. I'd imagine they would possibly be best-off right behind a ST 3 player, like so

_____
_____
__B__
__R__
_____
_____

Any other advice is welcome, as well! The Dwarves look VERY intimidating, at least on paper (never played against them, as I said)

EDIT: As you may have noticed, time is of the essence as the game is tomorrow!

[Master Wang]

When attacking and defending, remember you're so much faster than he is.

On defence go all out! If you get the chance to kick first, do so as this is your best chance of turning over the ball as you still have all your players.

Set up your runners in pairs in the wide zones, stagger them to protect against the frenzy crowd push from the troll slayers. They should be able to protect each other fairly well and at worst only one will go down. Once it's your turn, get them into your opponent's half and race to the ball - you'll need a bit of luck as you don't have kick. Either try to get to the ball first or screen the ball carrier from the cage. If you think you have a great shot at getting the ball send in some linerats to mark potential assists from his players - linerats are fast too.

If he gets into a cage, you're in for the old "dodge away only let it move one square tactic". I hate this with skaven as they don't have the agility to make this work. If your opponent makes a mistake, you may be able to pick off a corner of the cage and get to the ball carrier, but I'd just try and let him score quickly and minimise the damage to your players.

To make defence a bit easier, when your attacking don't always aim to score in 2 turns. If you know he's going to need a fairly fast touchdown after you score, delay a turn or two (just hold your runners and thrower back). He'll have to force your play on offence by committing players forward, and then he'll have to rush his offence on the next drive.

Be careful of his troll slayers and crowd surfing and watch for any opportunities to do it yourself as you probably won't be causing many casualties from blocks. If you get a numbers advantage, you are laughing all the way as his players will have to chase you all over the board

Good luck and let us know how it goes. I love skaven, because one way or another it's usually spectacular

[Brokje]

Hi there!

I think Master Wang covers most of it, but here is my advice.

If you win the toss, elect to KICK. Try to get to him before he gets to the ball. With 4 Runners you can dodge (even to TZs) with ease, but look out for the Blockers as they come with Tackle. Try to get TZ on the Dwarf Runner who is going to pick up the ball, or even better Block him. In that case a 2-die against block can be worthwile, but dont do 2-die against blocks in other situations! Most of the Dwarfs have Block, so you will loose that battle!

If they manage to get the ball into a cage, try to harass him into scoring. Keep a Runner into position to score or able to get the ball with a hand off or quick pass and run out of reach.

I would not be hesitant to foul. When you can get rid of his Runner(s), he has a hard time ball handling. NEVER leave one of your Runners next to a Blocker.

Hope this helps...
Best of luck and let us know how you fared!
M

[kiih]

/DRIFTING AGAIN, MATCH REPORT

We played the first half but didn't have time for the second one. The second half will be postponed for over a week, which sucks

As it turns out I received 80k Inducements and bought a Merc Lineman. I didn't have time to read Brokje's tips, so when I won the toss I decided to receive (EDIT it seems Wang also suggested this, dunno how I missed it). The kick-off result was Riot, and we rolled the maximum (3 turns ahead). I was actually happy about the result, since he'd have less turns to bash me.

I made a two-turn TD with a pickup-handoff-pass -play. Easy stuff with 11 players on the field. (As a sidenote, I'm really beginning to see why 4 GRs are awesome, as before I always played with only 2)

On his offense, my opponent had really no failed dice rolls, at least important ones. I didn't have any catastrophic rolls either, but didn't succeed in most of my actions. He managed a 3-turn TD and caused two casualties (both Badly Hurt Linemen, the other one was the Mercenary, woo hoo!).

I tried a chain-push 1-turn TD but failed due to lack of a re-roll (and also, I've never succeeded in one anyway).

Luckily I got both my KO'd players out of the box and will start the second half with 10 players (4 GRs, 2 Blitzers, 1 Thrower and 3 Linemen). I'd say I'm lucky to have 10 players, with all the Tacklers and Blockers on his team. And I'm lucky to have all my positional players.

Still, it seems very difficult to prevent his TD with only 10 players, and manage to make a TD of my own. True, he got lucky on his last offence and I didn't, but still. He has 12 players and none are KO'd or injured, so I'll probably be playing against the full 11 players for the rest of the game.

All in all, it was a fun first half. Would've been nice to finish the game, though. Just thought I'd let you know how it went.

Also, I still welcome any tactical advice you guys can give me. Now that you know the exact situation for the second half, the advice could possibly be more specific. The situation: I'm kicking, the score is 1-1, I have only 10 players but all my positionals and he has 12 players. I haven't used my Apo (I'm planning to use it only for GRs or Blitzers, and only if they get a Niggling or worse, sound good?).

Thanks again!

[whitetiger]

When you kick off, you are on offense. Yes, I know you're kicking off. The dwarves are gonna think they're on offense. They are mistaken. YOU are on offense. Just outrun him to the ball. Set up the ball toward one side of the field and then load up that side.

Code: Select all

**********************
_ _ _ _ | _ _ L L L _ _ | _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ | L _ _ _ _ _ L | _ _ _ _
_ _ B _ | G _ _ _ _ _ _ | _ B _ _
_ G _ _ | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ | _ _ G _

Set up like this with your best blitzer and gutter runner on the same side of the field as you kick the ball. Your front line will get pushed back or knocked down. One of your players, probably the lineman by himself, will get blitzed. They'll try to cover the rest of your players. Dodge away and send everyone standing into his backfield. If you have to, use a lino or a gutter runner to give an assist and use a blitzer to knock a hole into him so your other gutter runners can go through. Duck, weave and dodge everyone into his backfield. Get more of your people into his backfield then he has. Then take the ball and score. Repeat as necessary until you outscore him.

[Master Wang]

You took a merc lineman - did you give him kick? If you did, great. The problem you'll have with Whitetiger's set up is you don't have the men for it, right?

If you have kick, I'd set up even stronger on one side (blitzer and three runners plus thrower, or four runners) and leave the weak side very
weak (blitzer and thrower or other runner). So long as the kick goes more or less where you want it, he'll leave the weak side alone while making the ball safe (which hopefully he can't do in one turn).

If you didn't take kick, you can still try this but you'll need more luck.

If he does get the ball safe, try and force him to score relatively quickly so you'll have more than one turn to reply and get the draw. If he's a good coach and can control the clock well, run away and have an intact team for your next game.

Good luck!