Orcs vs Next Opponent Tactics

[PubBowler]

Whitetiger - I understood the diagrams You see a potential hole as being a big problem. I don't necessarily see it that way. With the two sweepers, there's a good chance that it will actually give me a shot at hurting the Dark Elf or the skaven if they look to exploit it. I'm big on giving my opponent options. At least they have to make decisions.

I think we are just tackling the problem from different angles. You seem to be angling for a rock solid "none shall pass" type of defence. I prefer to play a more dynamic (and risky) defence where I also improve my chances of creating a turn-over and recovering the ball.

Against a team with a shortage of reliable fast players I'm not sure it is more risky.

[whitetiger]

The biggest difference between our 2 lines of thinking is that you are putting your throwers deeper to be your sweepers and I'm trying to free up the blitzers to do the job while also making it more difficult to blow a hole through your defense. But you are right about one thing, the game will tell us what works.

[Big Daddy]

Well Nuffle delivered with the Chaos Pact Big Guys having a forgetable night.

I kicked first. Turned him over on defence and ran in a turn 7 TD thanks to a lucky pick-up on my part in 3 tackle zones Sweepers cleaned up the skaven and put him MNG when he tried to penetrate. The 1 turn play broke down for the Pact as they tried to equalise in turn 8. My tactic of concentrating on the lower armour guys was slowly paying dividends.

Second half I had a slight numbers advantage that turned into a big numbers advantage with some bad luck on his part (out of TRR) and some good positioning on mine that saw the mino and two marauders get surfed in consecutive turns. I bashed away for the rest of the half but didn't make much headway. Ran in and handed off for a turn 8 TD. A crowd riot dragged out the half but that just got me a cas on the minotaur as he both downed a block against a lino

Thanks again to the guys for the input. Especially you tiger, getting me to understand that flank set-up is gonna help me in a lot of games for the future

[Big Daddy]

The danger of that set up is that it leaves your blitzers open to be targets of blitzes and you could end up with something like this, at best, if the other guy just gets pushes. If he stuns, or knocks out, a player, now there's a wide open hole. Hence the reason I put a LM in front of the blitzers.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- LM --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BO --|-- -- LM -- LM -- --|-- BO -- --
-- LM -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- BL|-- -- LM --
-- -- -- BL|-- -- -- -- -- -- -- |-- -- -- --

Just of interest I thought it worthwhile to point out that when we do these hypotheticals we don't sketch in the opposing players. Technically there is a gap for a player to move through without hitting a defenders tackle-zone however there is a good chance that the movement of players to lend assists, lay the blocks etc for the acting team will result in the closure of the gap for all intents and purposes. Below is the only way I could depict a situation where the offence could make a 2d block on the blitzer without a Strength advantage. In order to get a 2d the offence forfeits the hole they have made.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- CP -- -- -- LM --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BO --|CP -- LM -- LM -- --|-- BO -- -- 
-- LM -- --|CP -- -- -- -- -- BL|-- -- LM --
-- -- -- BL|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --

Just some food for thought

Oh yeah it's important to add that I don't think my way of playing it is any more valid than tigers suggestion. Both ways could work for sure. My set-up worked for me on the day but of course there is luck to consider and also that I am more comfortable with playing 2 men deep.

[whitetiger]

Good game. Glad your set up worked for you. A lot of the suggestions people give here are as much food for thought as demands for action. When you decided to go ahead with your set up with the deep sweepers, you did it as a more educated coach than if we hadn't been talking about setting up other ways. I still prefer my Orc set up the way I diagramed it, and I'm 4-1 with it. But you won with yours. Playing style counted as much as anything, probably. But I'm glad you learned about stepping back that outside guy to protect from the surf.

[bouf]

Mino + Frenzy = Bad!

I wish some one was handy to give me that advice all those moons ago!
I'm psyched it worked out for you! Us Green Skins gotta work together.

I use a Very Simular set up on 'D'

Code: Select all

| -- -- -- --|-- BO -- TR -- BO --|-- -- -- -- | 
| -- -- BO --|LM -- -- BZ -- -- LM|-- BO -- -- | 
| -- BZ -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BZ -- | 
| -- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- | 
| -- -- -- --|-- -- -- BZ -- -- --|-- -- -- -- | 

Thats what I try to go for but at the moment I still don't have the 2nd lineman. It only leaves one player deep but gives me a Strong Advantage on the line that can be real hard to break through.
The problem is the troll needs a budy to keep him Active...
Quick snap is a nightmare for me with some teams!

Pretty much the whole team gets Stand Firm in the first two skills (I play in a real long league mind you... 20ish games per season)

TR (line) = Stand Firm, Guard, Grab (Block or Pro)
BO (line) = Block, Stand Firm, Guard (Dodge)
BO (wing) = Block, Stand Firm, Frenzy (Diving Tackle)
BZ (wing) = Tackle, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow (Dodge)
BZ (deep) = Tackle, Frenzy, Juggernaught (Dodge or Sure Feet)
BZ (line) = Mighty Blow, Pile On, Pro (Jump Up)
LM = Wrestle, Fend, Dauntless (Guard)

[Big Daddy]

Interesting line-up Bouf. I can see the merit in AV9 across the board and Standfirm (all things count in large amounts!) How do you go with ball handling?

After this game my line-up is looking like this:

BoB
BoB (-1MA and MNG)
Blitz
Blitz
Blitz
Thrower - Block
Thrower
Lineman - tackle
Lineman - tackle
3 linemen
4trr

I'm coming into my third league match against Lizzies - 4 saurus, 7 skinks no skill ups. Our league is 10 games + finals, I have a reasonable outline of what I want in the line-up but I'm not banking on having everything I want by the end of the season. I guess I kinda play the skill ups by ear as getting a double or a stat changes things fairly dramatically. I'm also not that good at deliberately working SPP onto players when they are close to skilling. It seems whenever I try you can guarantee the failing of a quick pass, GFI or hand off to TD etc - Nuffle seems to hate those kind of plays for some reason

[bouf]

Interesting line-up Bouf. I can see the merit in AV9 across the board and Standfirm (all things count in large amounts!) How do you go with ball handling?

That is my defensive set up. I usually try to crowd the ball and then fight it out. AG3 is fine for pick up rolls... (famous last words) ...so Once you've beat the snot outa your opponent, then go for the pick up.

Alternatively, Skill up a thrower the same as the lineman.
Wrestle, Fend, Dauntless (Guard)

[whitetiger]

Now see, once again, it's a matter of playing style. I try to turn my blitzers into halfbacks. Get them the ball on every play I can. So, I turn my throwers into true quarterbacks so they can get the ball to the blitzers. I'll give them block, and after that they get nothing but throwing skills. Accurate, nerves of steel, safe throw. I'll give one or two of my blitzers sure hands to protect from strip ball, mostly, but also to pick up balls that have been knocked loose. Then the blitzers get a mix of stand firm, guard, mighty blow, tackle and strip ball. And, of course, a +AG or + ST skill up changes all that. Dodge and catch, Frenzy and Juggernaut.

[Big Daddy]

I got two throwers so I'm gonna build one as pure throwing and the other into block, nerves, safe throw as a ball getter.

Blitzers are going to get different builds.

1 ball stripper - strip ball, jugger, tackle
2 guards - guard, mighty blow, tackle
1 nasty pasty - mighty blow, piling on.

I'm undecided on the BoB's yet. Block seems a must but from there...grab guard mighty blow they all have their situational uses. Guard is probably the best all round skill to take. Maybe two guards and 1 grab, 1 mighty blow.

Of course this is talking fairly far down the development line

[whitetiger]

Try to get stand firm on some of the blitzers and definately on the BOBs. A LOS with a bunch of block-stand firm BOBs is a real pain to deal with. The opposition can't get through it even if the BOBs are knocked down. Drives people nuts.

[Big Daddy]

Good argument for standfirm from both of you. I'm not sure I want to go down that line but I can see the merit of the strategy.

Played the Lizzies last night. A really bizarre match, I had really good luck at the start of the game. We played in pouring rain and the skinks fumbled the ball right back toward my end zone. final failed pick-up bounced the ball off a saurus' head into the arms of my blitzer (Caught the ball in 3 tackle zones!) who dodged off to score. It was really handy as he was outnumbered 4 to one. The rest of the match I couldn't do anything right. I had a couple of good scoring chances go down to re-rolled double skulls, I think I went for six sets of double skulls this match, damn Black Orcs, lol!

Second half I coughed up the ball with a failed hand off (being too cocky) and a skink picked up in a couple of tackle zones. I managed to nail him but it started a big chain of fumbles that ended up with the ball transferring across the pitch to one of my linemen. He got nailed by a saurus and I looked badly out of position. A skink managed to pick up and run down field over a couple of turns to equalise. He kicked to me to start turn seven and I managed to get a blitzer down field. My thrower stuffed the pick-up in the pouring rain and it looked like the Lizzies had a chance but they had a turn over before they could pick up the free blitzer. My thrower, named Long Bomb , made the pick-up and threw an accurate long-bomb (love dem 6's) which the blitzer caught in the pouring rain. He TD'd with a go for it and I got out of jail 2-1!

I managed to snag a couple of skill ups but as it is computer generated I'll have to wait and see what happens. If anything odd pops up I'll see what you guys think. I also lost a blitzer to death. I wasn't paying enough attention and got him crowd surfed On the upside my TV isn't too bloated for my match against Dark Elves next round.

[whitetiger]

Congrats on the win. Too bad about the blitzer. Better pick up another blitzer if you can before the game against the Darkies. You'll want the speed.

[bouf]

Is it sad when MA6 counts as speed?

[whitetiger]

Not when you consider the fast feet of 4 BOBs.