Orc Team Skills (HELP! My orcs want to be elves...)

[Master Wang]

HELP! My orcs want to be elves...

First, apologies for the long post. There's quite a bit to lay out and I want to cover all the options I've already thought of so no one repeats them.

Background Info

I play in a small perpetual league consisting of two orc (one of which is mine), a human, wood elf and dwarf teams. There is also another team but I'll probably never play it as the coach is leaving Japan soon. Similarly there was an undead team that's now on the other side of the Pacific.

I've played two games and after fairly evenly distributing the SPP and having the MVPs to fall kindly, I had four orcs skill up last night (3 blitzers and the thrower.

Here's my team in full (there are no stat changes, niggles or skill ups yet, but a lineman died in my first game against undead) :

1. Blitzer 6SPP double 1
2. Blitzer
3. Blitzer 6SPP double 5
4. Blitzer 8SPP 11
5. BO
6. BO
7. BO
8. BO
9. Thower 6SPP double 1
10. Lineman

Apothecary
3 Rerolls
FF 5 (Free in our league)
70,000GP

Had these rolls been normals, I'd have developed 2 stand firm blitzers, a something else blitzer and given the thrower block. But the rolls have given me a lot (too much ) choice.

Of the other teams in my league I don't know too much yet, but all have played at least one more game than me, some many more. The WE are undefeated, have a treeman, a stripball wardancer (I think), and a frenzy-juggernaut wardancer.

My ideas

Blitzers 1 & 3:

Take side step on both, ignoring the possible MA increase. I'm 99% decided on this. This'll give me great options on defense out wide (though I've only read about this so may have trouble putting it into practice). Also, they'll be very hard to remove from the ball carrier on offense. Next skill ups - either guard on both or frenzy to make the widezones super dangerous and do some crowd pushing.

Alternatives:

take dodge on both;

take the MA on #3 (I think I read somewhere that 6-7 is the most important MA increase as you can 2 turn without go-for-its) and something else on #1;

take catch on both and have a crazy passing orc team...

Blitzer 4

Take the agility.

What's his next skill up? Sure hands to protect against strip ball? Might as well bench the thrower if I do this.

Thrower

Now I have an AG4 blitzer, this guy may not be doing so much ball handling. If I use the doubles, sprint or sure feet to make him faster and lessen the need to take KOR? I don't see him dodging much the way I play but I could take dodge to make him more mobile and protect against blocks?

Or I could ignore the doubles. Accurate will work best with blitzer #4 and may get in ahead of block which was what I was planning to take. Or I could just get KOR or leader.

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Anyway, I think that's everything I've considered. Any strong arguments for any of the above or other possibilities I haven't considered?

[Craigtw]

1. Blitzer 6SPP double 1 dodge
2. Blitzer
3. Blitzer 6SPP double 5 dodge
4. Blitzer 8SPP 11 +Agililty
5. BO
6. BO
7. BO
8. BO
9. Thower 6SPP double 1 Strong Arm
10. Lineman

[grampyseer]

Craigtw. Posted my thoughts to the "T".

But on the other hand, having 2 blitzers with sidestep gives you a GREAT option to test out the skill. (Pairs works best!)

...I think that dodge is the safe option......but safe is for elves. Play orky....go crazy

[stormmaster1]

blitzers: All down to your own playstyle. 2 side step players is a rare luxury for orc teams so sounds like a great idea. Depending on the amount of tackle in your league dodge could be very useful, although i'd suggest side step opens more options up for you. My own orc sides struggle for speed more than anything else so i'd think very hard before turning down MA 7 blitzers.

AG4 is a no brainer.

For the thrower: are you ging to pass the ball much. Unless you plan on creating an awesome passer than strong arm is a waste. Dodge may help keep your thrower on his feet, but my experience is that it is all too easy to get a tackler into the right position. You won't do much dodging so the skill is half wasted. I'd go for sure feet. The weakness on offence for orcs is getting the ball into the cage. A skill that moves the ball carrier closer into the cage before the wardancers find him is very useful.

[Andromidius]

Sidestep x2, Agility and Strong Arm, in my opinion.

Dodge is nice, but seeing those Dwarves and Wood Elves makes me think that Tackle will be a very popular skill. Sidestep is a much more useful skill, as it's not ignored by anything except Grab - a very unpopular skill. Also means you can put the two Blitzers on the sidelines without fear of being frenzy-pushed into the crowd by that Wardancer. Next skills should be things to hurt said Wardancer - Tackle, Mighty Blow!

Agility is possibly the best stat increase in the game, especially for a relatively quick player. A AG4 Orc Blitzer will be a brilliant player for you, and should be developed into the 'runner' - Strip Ball, Stand Firm, Sprint... hell, Leap if you get another double. He'll be insanely useful for handling the ball.

Strong Arm is the skill all throwers want. And you just got it early. Make sure you make Short Passes to the AG4 Blitzer and you're getting completions on a 2+ 2+. Next skill to get him is Accurate, making Long Pass completions on a 2+ 2+. The team is starting to throw like High Elves!

For your other players, when they start skilling up, keep it nice and simple. All those doubles are going to bloat your Team Rating as it is, so if you get any more doubles you should ignore them. Block on the Black Orcs and Lineman, Guard on the Blitzers.

~Andromidius

[Ullis]

You're missing out on the Strength skills a lot with all those doubles and the AG. The next level for the three Blitzers will come at 16 (should be no problem for the AG blitzer, but sidestep won't get you too many SPP's). Your Black Orcs will take time even to get Block as none of them have any SPP's so far.

You'll soon be facing Guard and Mighty Blow Human Blitzers and Dwarfs not to mention the other Orc team. On top of that you won't be able to hurt the Wood Elves properly. Last, all those doubles and the AG add up to a whopping 130k increase in team value!

[Master Wang]

Hmm... thanks so far guys. I'm almost wishing those doubles hadn't happened. The AG4 was chosen as soon as the dice stopped rolling, but the others are still up in the air.

TBH I had completely forgotten about strong arm 3+ 3+ 4+ 5+ is tempting if I can get to accurate quite quickly. If I took it, would that alter what people would suggest for the other two blitzers? Take the MA on #3? Catch on both? I don't like the idea of not playing to a team's natural strengths, but these roles mean I could do so quite well and still be quite bashy. Also the catch skills and +AG would mean opponents would have to be concerned with three potential receievers, and it'd help the thrower get his SPPs.

I feel like I'm thinking too far out of the box

On another note, is side step worth taking over stand firm with regards to TV?

(I edited the thread title to distinguish this from the usual "How should I develop my orcs?" discussions)

[Tante Kaethe]

Hi Master Wang,

Definately take the +MA! I have two MA7 Blitzers in my Orc team and they make ALL the difference.

Sidestep on the other Blitzer is nice, as is Dodge or Jump Up. You can't go wrong with any of the three (just note that JU nicely combines with Piling On later in development ).

For the thrower I'd not take Strong Arm, IMO it's a waste of doubles for an Orc-Thrower, you can pick up Accurate later which more than enough. Orcs shouldn't play the passing game!
I'd take Sure Feet (compensates the biggest disadvantage of the thrower: MA5) or Dodge (having a Blodge Thrower in the middle of a Guard-cage will be a nightmare for your opponents).

Cheers

Tante Käthe

[Tritex]

I like the idea of 2 Blodgers and a AG4 Blitzer these would be ace front men and things like tackle etc can come later. Not sure about strongarm on Thrower but its as good as any. cannot wait for next round of skills sounds like an interesting team developing.

[mattgslater]

Haven't read other posts.

Side Step x2: best cornerbacks you'll ever see. Not a hard decision at all. Get one Frenzy next, then Juggernaut (put him next to the Guard Thrower or +AG Blitzer) and the other one Tackle or Grab (I'd go Grab: it's got great offensive potential along with an AG4 Blitzer, and besides, Side Step is a drive-killer). I can see taking the +MA (it is cool), but you have a +AG bacon-saver. If you do take +MA, take Dodge on the other guy (again, cornerback: next skill is Stand Firm) and make +MA boy an OLB (leaving you with two great ballhounds on the outside).

+AG. Safety, baby! Or you can use him as an OLB (good ball-getter, can make a dodge to blitz if it's important), but if you do that, don't develop the Thrower with Guard below, but instead take Accurate, Leader, KoR or Kick over the double on the Thrower. Either way, the #4 Blitzer (the one who hasn't improved) goes Frenzy and Mighty Blow and this guy's second bump is either Tackle, Guard or Mighty Blow, with Dodge on doubles. This is because your oppo will build their strong side to go his way unless you put in a deterrent. I would take Guard for use as an outside linebacker... he'll be a TD machine, and very hard to pin down if supported with another Blitzer. But if you're worried about those Human or Woodie players and want to make a safety out of him, then take Tackle. Either way, MB is a no-brainer for #3 in a perpetual league, and it makes a good #2 if you can't decide how to use him.

Thrower with Guard: outside linebacker par excellence. The oppo pretty much has to go the other way (given that this guy's protecting a Block/SS player), leaving him a clear line to capitalize on the blitz if the ball is shallow (this is called the "weakside" or "Will" position in football). If you use the +AG guy as OLB, then ignore the double and make this guy a safety. Strong Arm isn't worth it, as the real value of Accurate is in the 2+ QP. KoR is more reliable than Accurate on offense, which is where you need the most help. Leader is always welcome, and a Thrower-as-Safety is the best resting place for the Kick skill on the Orc team.

[Biff]

I actually have the same "problem". I have a block/dodge/side step blitzer, a AG4 blitzer and I just rolled a double for my blitzer with tackle. Im thinking Side Step, and as Matt suggested, theyll rock in the wide zone. I hope.

[stashman]

1. Blitzer 6SPP double 1 SIDE STEP
Take side step over dodge. Dodge will be nullified by tackle in the longrun.

3. Blitzer 6SPP double 5 SIDE STEP or +MA
Either side step or MA. MA7 blitzer is fast and with tackle hi brings down the fast ones too.

4. Blitzer 8SPP 11 +AG
AG - Don't even think of anything else!!!

9. Thower 6SPP double 1 SIDE STEP
Strong arm is good, but how often do you pass with orcs, LONG RANGE!!! Side step protects your ballcarrier against crowd surfing when you are in a halfcage beside the widezone crowd. Caged by the side stepping blitzers. Its hard to take him down!!!

[mattgslater]

I'd be hesitant to give Side Step to that 6SPP Thrower. Yeah, it'll help him stay on the ball, but with AV8 and no Block, you don't want him taking hits. I think Orc Throwers should either take Guard (to play OLB and to make it easier to free them up) or should ignore doubles entirely.

[Jural]

I think Orc Throwers should either take Guard (to play OLB and to make it easier to free them up) or should ignore doubles entirely.

I am tempted to always ignore doubles until I have kick-off return and block, but I will usually consider dodge (to get rid of negative modifiers and/or intercept attempts) or guard or catch once I have those pieces in place.

The problem is, Nerves of Steel can generally get you most of the way to where Dodge would get you, and it doesn't bring with it a 1/9 chance of failure.

Guard throwers are interesting, but both of my past orc teams have ended up with at least one guard linemen early on, which I use in a similar fashion.

I have seen some orcs run with dump-off and nerves of steel on one thrower, and it would make sense to throw catch on the other one (and Nerves of Steel) if you wanted to.

But that's all I can think of honestly. I'd probably just go kick-off return, it's important enough with this squad.

[tenwit]

If I took it, would that alter what people would suggest for the other two blitzers? Take the MA on #3? Catch on both?

Catch on neither. Buy gobbos. Catch on them. They'll be discardable, but with a goblin, troll and an accurate/strong arm thrower in/near the cage, you've got a huge psychological advantage over the defending team.