Orc Team Skills (HELP! My orcs want to be elves...)

[Jural]

However, I think that an orc thrower (in normal circumstances) should not really need the block skill

It depends upon how you use him, that's all. Most orc coaches around this way are trying to go with a 13 man roster, or 14 with thr goblin.

That means that one of your throwers (at least) is fielded on defense as a safety. Because of that, I find he ends up being called upon to hit a lot more than thowers of other races.

But since you get two throwers, it's not a crazy idea to end up with two one awesome offensive player and one defensive one.. but personally I wait on that decision until they have both advanced twice (and I pray for +AG or +MA!)

[DoubleSkulls]

6,5 blitzer has to be +AG - its just too useful to turn down.

1,1 blitzer I'd take dodge over sidestep, since he can get stand firm next anyway. If the league had lots of tackle I'd consider something else (leader?).

5,5 blitzer - dodge or +MA for me. I'd take the +MA in a longer expected longevity team, dodge is more useful in the short term. Also if the league already had lots of tackle I'd take MA.

1,1 thrower - strong arm. Having the ability to pass the ball long range when needed is really useful on Orc teams as it makes the 2 turn or 3 turn TDs much more possible (especially since you've blitzers to support it). You don't need to use this as a normal strategy - its your get out of jail free card should you need it.

[Ren_Rew]

1. Blitzer 6SPP double 1 dodge
2. Blitzer
3. Blitzer 6SPP double 5 dodge
4. Blitzer 8SPP 11 +Agililty
5. BO
6. BO
7. BO
8. BO
9. Thower 6SPP double 1 Strong Arm
10. Lineman

I totally agree on that!

[mattgslater]

I'd develop a Thrower with Accurate and KOR and one with Block and either Leader or Kick. Block/KOR seems kind of schizophrenic to me: you want this guy to be maximized for defense with regard to development, even though you'll probably field him on offense, too.

[Master Wang]

Well, I've been away for the weekend and still haven't made a decision (and don't have to for a while as I can't do any BB for a couple of weeks ).

I've made a mental note to sit down before starting a league team in the future and decide how I want them to develop, and then sticking to that target. My lack of experience with orcs, and league play in general, means these double roles have thrown me a lot.

Anyway, everyone has given me lots of good suggestions so I'll give it a bit more thought then decide. The two doubles blitzers are the ones I'm still pondering, mainly because the league is so small I'm wondering how easy it'll be for the other teams to counter act them if I give them sidestep by just developing players with grab.

Derailing my own thread, but does anyone have an opinion on the way small leagues develop? Do you tend to end up with a large number of skills that just cancel each other out?

[stashman]

Anyway, everyone has given me lots of good suggestions so I'll give it a bit more thought then decide. The two doubles blitzers are the ones I'm still pondering, mainly because the league is so small I'm wondering how easy it'll be for the other teams to counter act them if I give them sidestep by just developing players with grab.

Derailing my own thread, but does anyone have an opinion on the way small leagues develop? Do you tend to end up with a large number of skills that just cancel each other out?

Let your opponents waste their strength skills with Grab (over Guard, Mighty Blow etc.). Grab is good but there is not so many that picks that skill, atleast in our league.

Side Step forces your opponent to think before making the blocks.

[mattgslater]

I've made a mental note to sit down before starting a league team in the future and decide how I want them to develop, and then sticking to that target.

Wouldn't it be great if that worked? It doesn't. You don't know what you're going to roll. You don't know who's going to improve next. You don't know what your opponents are going to take.

I think the right strategy is to focus on defensive positioning. Then for each player, as he goes up, I can buy skills based on where I think he fits in and what I need to cover. You're in a unique situation, as you've answered the question of the hardest position to fill in for on the Orc team with the best possible answer quite by accident: I simply can't think of a better cornerback than an Orc Blitzer with Side Step, especially given that it lets you put your BOBs in as inside linebackers to absorb the blitz inside... now, just get two BOBs with Block and two with Stand Firm for the line (plus a Troll with Guard), and your oppo will need to Leap to break in.

[Craigtw]

It depends upon how you use him, that's all. Most orc coaches around this way are trying to go with a 13 man roster, or 14 with thr goblin.

That means that one of your throwers (at least) is fielded on defense as a safety. Because of that, I find he ends up being called upon to hit a lot more than thowers of other races.

But since you get two throwers, it's not a crazy idea to end up with two one awesome offensive player and one defensive one.. but personally I wait on that decision until they have both advanced twice (and I pray for +AG or +MA!)

Here is what he has right now.

Here's my team in full (there are no stat changes, niggles or skill ups yet, but a lineman died in my first game against undead) :

1. Blitzer 6SPP double 1
2. Blitzer
3. Blitzer 6SPP double 5
4. Blitzer 8SPP 11
5. BO
6. BO
7. BO
8. BO
9. Thower 6SPP double 1
10. Lineman

Apothecary
3 Rerolls
FF 5 (Free in our league)
70,000GP

He has his main positionals with the black orcs and blitzers being covered and he has his apothecary - I would suggest that he gets another lineman before another thrower.

Is it a crazy idea to have an "offensive" and a "defensive" thrower? No, it isn't crazy... but it isn't smart either. Why would you want to use your thrower to make the blitzes on the catcher types who squeeze through the LOS when a blitzer is so much better at it?

My advice would be to make the throwers throwers let them do what they do best and then let the blitzers do their job. Get the extra lineman, have them hold the front and then leave one (or two) blitzers back as the safeties. This way if you do have a blitzer knock down a ball carrier, the thrower can actually have a chance to pass or hand of fthe ball once he has used his Sure Hands to pick up the ball.

[mattgslater]

Is it a crazy idea to have an "offensive" and a "defensive" thrower? No, it isn't crazy... but it isn't smart either. Why would you want to use your thrower to make the blitzes on the catcher types who squeeze through the LOS when a blitzer is so much better at it?

OK, it's a matter of quantity. You've got a nose tackle: a Troll or lino. You also have two defensive ends: BOBs. Two inside linebackers are also BOBs. You need two cornerbacks: fortunately, there are these two Blitzers with Side Step. That leaves you with two outside linebackers and two safeties, of whom only two can be Blitzers. If you leave both Blitzers in at safety, kiss any two-turner hopes (and the attendant SPP) goodbye, as your linebackers, in a position to score in two turns with MA6, are all MA4-5. You can also kiss goodbye any hopes of getting Guard or Block/Frenzy/MB or other OLB skills on those linebackers if you don't make them Blitzers. So you develop a Thrower as a free safety and use a Blitzer or lino with Block to make any backfield hits, leaving you a Blitzer or two at OLB to, well, blitz (in the football sense, and maybe in the BB sense too) into the backfield. Once you have a Block lino, you really want to leave your Blitzers out wide, so they can hit anywhere around midfield and block off passing lanes if the receiver goes too deep to hit

"Thrower" is such an offensive term. Offense is worth developing one player for, not more. However, it's nice to have a SH guy and a guy with P access available to play defense, and at MA5, safety is the place for him. So you pay 20k over a lino and suffer an AV hit: he's a safety, so it's not a big deal. He won't get blitzed on defense (unless there's a ST4 Wardancer...).

[Craigtw]

Is it a crazy idea to have an "offensive" and a "defensive" thrower? No, it isn't crazy... but it isn't smart either. Why would you want to use your thrower to make the blitzes on the catcher types who squeeze through the LOS when a blitzer is so much better at it?

OK, it's a matter of quantity. You've got a nose tackle: a Troll or lino. You also have two defensive ends: BOBs. Two inside linebackers are also BOBs. You need two cornerbacks: fortunately, there are these two Blitzers with Side Step. That leaves you with two outside linebackers and two safeties, of whom only two can be Blitzers. If you leave both Blitzers in at safety, kiss any two-turner hopes (and the attendant SPP) goodbye, as your linebackers, in a position to score in two turns with MA6, are all MA4-5. You can also kiss goodbye any hopes of getting Guard or Block/Frenzy/MB or other OLB skills on those linebackers if you don't make them Blitzers. So you develop a Thrower as a free safety and use a Blitzer or lino with Block to make any backfield hits, leaving you a Blitzer or two at OLB to, well, blitz (in the football sense, and maybe in the BB sense too) into the backfield. Once you have a Block lino, you really want to leave your Blitzers out wide, so they can hit anywhere around midfield and block off passing lanes if the receiver goes too deep to hit

"Thrower" is such an offensive term. Offense is worth developing one player for, not more. However, it's nice to have a SH guy and a guy with P access available to play defense, and at MA5, safety is the place for him. So you pay 20k over a lino and suffer an AV hit: he's a safety, so it's not a big deal. He won't get blitzed on defense (unless there's a ST4 Wardancer...).

Sorry man, WAY too much NFL terminology in there for me to really get the point.

One thing I have to ask is whether you are offended at the fact that I use the term thrower or (more likely) that you are suggesting that throwers are good for offense. if it is the former, then get a life. If it is the latter then I feel that you are, again, too mired in the NFL ideas and need to consider the more fluid play of Blood Bowl. Being on the defensive and the offensive can happen in one turn, and with making a thrower (with stong arm???) available to throw a pass after the ball carrier has been knocked over can make for a great play.

[Master Wang]

Err... looks like I better make a decision before this gets nasty

+AG on Blitzer 4

Sidestep on blitzers 1 & 3 (reluctantly passing up the +MA)

Block on the thrower.

I chose block because this guy has been doing a lot of ball carrying on offense, and block and surehands will help keep him safe. Plus on defense he is a safety, so this makes him more reliable. If he'd already have had accurate then strong arm would have been a no-brainer, but he doesn't and I'd have to put him in the touchdown rotation (only for blitzers until they all have two skills ATM) which would slow down the overall team development. I don't like to think of this guy as "defensive", though I'll admit he's not a pure thrower. TBH he'll probably end up with a utility skills such as kick or leader.

Thanks for all the imput, if any more interesting rolls come up let people know. I might also post on how the sidestepping corner backs go.

[stashman]

Good Luck Master wang and tell us how it will go.

[mattgslater]

Sorry man, WAY too much NFL terminology in there for me to really get the point.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- ?? --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- ?? -- --
-- BL -- --|?? -- -- -- -- -- ??|-- -- BL -- 

Two of the question-mark guys are Blitzers. The other two can't be. The two in front can hit the end zone in two turns, but only if they're Blitzers. They can make optimal use of Guard and Frenzy, but only if they're Blitzers. This means that the other two (the safeties) shouldn't be Blitzers if you can help it, or at least one shouldn't.

One thing I have to ask is whether you are offended at the fact that I use the term thrower or (more likely) that you are suggesting that throwers are good for offense. if it is the former, then get a life. If it is the latter then I feel that you are, again, too mired in the NFL ideas and need to consider the more fluid play of Blood Bowl. Being on the defensive and the offensive can happen in one turn, and with making a thrower (with stong arm???) available to throw a pass after the ball carrier has been knocked over can make for a great play.

A) No, I mean this:

OFFENSE IS LESS IMPORTANT IN BLOOD-BOWL STRATEGY THAN DEFENSE.

[Jural]

When I run an orc team, I like to open it up and throw a lot. My throwers pick up Strong Arm on Doubles and love skills like the old Safe Throw and Hail Mary Pass. And I usually go 15 men deep with two goblins.

Oh, and they don't do so well, just barely winning more than they lose! But they are fun.

however, I think the best way to win with orcs is to minimize team value and stick with a 13 man roster which comes out to:

2 throwers
4 blitzers
1 troll
4 blockers
1 lineman
1 goblin (or 2 linemen, either way.)

One lineman is a Dirty Player or other specialist player, the other lineman can be a kicker or just a block or tackle guy. But the point is, you are often going to want to line-up with your thrower as one of your deep men. And because of that, it pays to develop a purely defensive thrower.

I'm certainly not saying you are wrong in any way. But by the same token, neither is the original poster wrong to choose block on him.

Orcs are great in that they can actually develop in a lot of interesting ways- especially if you end up with 3 or 4 goblins.

But honestly, the team is better if you don't do that, I have found.

[mattgslater]

2 Goblins on a 15-man team is actually not terrible. Yeah, you give up an extra 80kTV, but now you can foul foul foul!