Proper sequence: Injury or Scatering?

[Captain Smollett]

Hi experts!

Probably it's no problem for you to answer my questions:

1) After I hit down the ball caryer, what comes first: Roll for injury or scater the ball (and maybe the thow-in by the crowd)? I think this is imortant, because it conditioned where the ball could stay lying finally.

2) I am performing a blitz action. After blocking my opponent I still have movement points (or GFIs). Do I have to end my movement before roling for injury and scatering?

Please apologize my less developed English skills - I am just a unexperienced coach from Germany.

Thank you very much in advace!

[Glowworm]

I scatter the ball in case someone tries to catch it and fails, it may scatter back onto the prone player (In which case it will scatter again..)

Again I personally think you should finish your movement before rolling for armour, it makes where you push a player to more important, even if you fall over later in the move (failed dodge or GFI) you still get to roll for armour and injury if required)

Hope this helps altho' Im no expert!!

[Rituro]

1) After I hit down the ball caryer, what comes first: Roll for injury or scater the ball (and maybe the thow-in by the crowd)?

Scatter the ball before the roll for injury.

2) I am performing a blitz action. After blocking my opponent I still have movement points (or GFIs). Do I have to end my movement before roling for injury and scatering?

Resolve the scatter and injury first, then continue with your movement.

[GalakStarscraper]

While I'm a BBRC member and wrote the LRB 5.0 ... these are not "official" answers. They are my opinions based on being knee deep in the rules for a long time. The bottom line is that the rulebook doesn't spell this out in this precise details ... so you then have to move to what was the intent of the rules. And I know the intent so I can speak to that.

1) After I hit down the ball caryer, what comes first: Roll for injury or scater the ball (and maybe the thow-in by the crowd)? I think this is imortant, because it conditioned where the ball could stay lying finally.

I would roll for scatter before injury. Bottom line ... I really don't care what order you do it all in as long as the ball cannot come to rest in the square occupied by the injuried player. So in that case I would do it in this order:

Block the opponent successfully
Push and follow-up decisions need made
Place opponent prone
Roll for scatter of ball until it comes to rest
Roll for AV and INJ

Now in reality ... almost 100% of players that I've seen roll for AV and INJ immediately after the player goes Prone. Which is fine ... as long as the ball is not allowed to come to rest in the square with the injured player.

So for how it normally works in a game ... do it in this order:

1) Block the player successfully
2) Push and follow-up decisions need made
3) Place him prone
4) Roll for AV and INJ (if KO'd or worse LEAVE the player on the pitch)
5) Roll for scatter of ball until it comes to rest
6) Remove opponent from pitch if KO'd or worse from injury roll

This is how it will probably actually be done in most face to face games.

2) I am performing a blitz action. After blocking my opponent I still have movement points (or GFIs). Do I have to end my movement before roling for injury and scatering?

Take the sequence I listed above and at the END of that sequence then add:

7) A player who was blitzing continues moving if desired and possible

Galak

[alternat]

5) Roll for scatter of ball until it comes to rest
6) Remove opponent from pitch if KO'd or worse from injury roll

always understood that 5 and 6 were swapped (so the ball may actually stop in the square where the injured player was, if the blocker didn't follow up) but this makes a lot of sense.

[DoubleSkulls]

Funnily enough I've always played that you finish resolving the av/inj before scattering so that potentially the ball could land in the square the ball carrier was knocked down into (assuming subsequent bounces).

Reading the rules doesn't actually seem to specify.

[GalakStarscraper]

Funnily enough I've always played that you finish resolving the av/inj before scattering so that potentially the ball could land in the square the ball carrier was knocked down into (assuming subsequent bounces).

Reading the rules doesn't actually seem to specify.

Ian ... I've put this on the list to discuss in October for clarification.

But to me ... it doesn't make any sense at all that if balls normally bounce off prone players that the player would "vanish" from the pitch so quickly that the ball he just dropped out be allowed to land in his square.

It would be very easy to clarify this for LRB 6.0.

To be honestly ... I don't care if we clarify it that the player can be removed from the pitch before the scatter ... I just personally think that is nuts because if he was just Stunned the ball could not come to rest in his square ... so why is KO'd or worse allowed for it to happen. To me personally that is an inconsistent rule treatment of a single event (ie where can the ball come to rest after the ball carrier is knocked down).

Galak

Galak

[DoubleSkulls]

I'm more than happy to have some clarification. Its rare it makes a difference either way.

[Podfrey]

I'm just wondering, if most of the people play it one way, doesn't it make sense to keep it that way?

As it's a game we suspend some realism anyway, i.e. you can't run over a stunned player, but if you KO them you can instantly run over where they used to be. It's a game mechanic having the player instantly disappear, not a realism simulation. So if it works for everything else, then why shouldn't it work for the dropped ball scenario? Just wondering aloud that's all....

[Grendel]

Funnily enough I've always played that you finish resolving the av/inj before scattering so that potentially the ball could land in the square the ball carrier was knocked down into (assuming subsequent bounces).

That is what I have seen in all of the leagues I played. Do the (possible) injury first, then do the ball.

[Sallacious]

I always scatter the ball... decide to follow up or not... scatter the ball... then finally roll for armour and injury

[Igor Tahavanale]

Funnily enough I've always played that you finish resolving the av/inj before scattering so that potentially the ball could land in the square the ball carrier was knocked down into (assuming subsequent bounces).

That is what I have seen in all of the leagues I played. Do the (possible) injury first, then do the ball.

It's all I've ever known too.

[tenwit]

I always scatter the ball... decide to follow up or not... scatter the ball... then finally roll for armour and injury

Bit confused about this one. When do you do the scattering? It has to be after the follow-up, according to the LRB page 10, the "Follow Up Moves" section:

The player’s coach must decide whether to follow up before any other dice rolls are made.

All the leagues I've played in have always done it pretty much the way Galak described: push, follow-up, scatter, Knocked Down (AV & injury). We get that from pg10, as the "The Results" section says "pushed back then Knocked Down", and the push-back includes the follow-up. We inferred the scatter-before-AV/inj thing from page 11, where reading the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs together (before and after the "Injuries" header) suggests that the ball is dropped when going prone, which is the first thing that happens when a player is Knocked Down. The AV/inj rolls happen after the placing prone (and associated scatter) is fully resolved.

Must remember to use fewer words next time..

[Leilond]

The rules on the LRB 5 are clear
1. Block
2. Defender destination if pushed
3. Follow up
4. Armor roll and injury if knocked down
5. Bounce the ball

It can sound not realistic, but it's a game, not a trasposition of the reality
If you don't like you can use an house rule to change that, but it is important to know that this is the sequence of play in the rules

[Daefaroth]

The rules on the LRB 5 are clear

After a statement like that I demand proof. If it is so clear, show me the quotes; and only LRB5 qoutes, not from a worksheet that anyone made up. Here is what I can find, and it is not clear to me that the injury roll take precedence over the bouncing ball.

Knock Downs: Page 10
A player that is Knocked Down should be placed on their side in the square, face up. The player may be injured (see Injuries, page 11)...

Follow Up Moves: Page 10
A player who has made a block is allowed to make a special follow up move and occupy a square vacated by the player that they have pushed back. The player’s coach must decide whether to follow up before any other dice rolls are made...

Knockdowns & Injuries: Page 11
A player who is carrying the ball and who is knocked down or placed prone will drop the ball in the square where they fall. The dropped ball will bounce one square in a random direction (see Bouncing Balls, page 13).

Injuries: Page 11
Unless the rules state otherwise, any player that is Knocked Down may be injured. The opposing coach rolls two D6 and adds their scores together in an attempt to try to beat the Knocked Down player’s Armour value. If the roll succeeds, then the opposing coach is allowed to roll on the Injury table in the next column to see what injury the player has suffered.

Bouncing Balls: Page 13
Large text block, nothing relevant here, not going to quote.