Orc Team Skills (HELP! My orcs want to be elves...)

[tenwit]

2 Goblins on a 15-man team is actually not terrible. Yeah, you give up an extra 80kTV, but now you can foul foul foul!

I think you're selling them short. Stunty and A access adds up to a very useful package. All sorts of fun things you can do with goblins on an orc team. They're excellent at getting into tight corners for an extra assist (or to remove several unwanted assists), they force the opposition to leave a deep safety or two (due to either TTM or Catch+Sprint, or both), and they're the only way to get Diving Tackle on the team without doubles.

Plus Sneaky Git.

Just don't get attached to them. Play them as disposable distractions and you'll get loads of use from them.

[mattgslater]

There's nothing wrong with Goblins. By "not terrible" I meant a 15-man roster on an AV9 team, which is generally considered undesirable. You can have two Gobs, two linos and a maximum of other positions for 1.09M. With 3RRs and an Apo, it's 1.32M. Yeah, that's a little bulky (it'll be a lot bulkier w/skills added, after all), but having 15 guys means you can always make fouls-for-trade, and that's a particularly good way to whup up on teams with health problems. If it costs you a Goblin or Lino and two actions to take out a 170k star on a team with 12 players, well, that's ok.

[Biff]

Ok, how about this:

Ive got 2 Side Steping Blitzers (one with Dodge, one with Tackle), one with AG+Guard and one with MB+Tackle. And I rolled a double on the last. My plan was for him to get Guard (since I only have Guard on one BOB and the Troll). But still, its a double.

Jump Up would be cool. I dont really need another side Steper, do I? Dodge is always handy. Or should I go with Guard?

[tenwit]

Not Jump Up, that doesn't help your team's main hurter. Dodge is the only double I'd consider for him. I'd go with Side Step and get Frenzy next time. Or else skip the double and get Frenzy. Put Guard on everyone else and ensure that there's a Guard player near your target so that Frenzy gives you 2 2dice blocks.

[mattgslater]

He's an outside LB, right, diagonally inside/in front of the Side Step Blitzer at cornerback? In that case, Guard beats all doubles rolls, as with Guard and a Sidestep corner your oppo will have to go inside on every drive (that's the stuff that quick turnovers and high body counts are made of). If you had a Guard lino or a BOB with Block and Frenzy, I'd want to put that guy in at OLB and use the MB/Tackle guy as a safety, in which case Diving Tackle or Dodge is your best bet (unless you drop the double and take Frenzy). If I didn't know where I would put the guy from match to match, I'd either go Dodge or Frenzy, as both of those get good use as linebacker skills, even though they're inferior to Guard, and Guard isn't much for a safety skill (after all, you usually want to be dropping the bomb with the Tackle/MB guy, using the other safety [Thrower or Goblin] to get the assist).

[mattgslater]

Is the Blitzer with SS and Dodge close to going up again? If so, give this guy Frenzy, and then give the SS/D guy Guard at 31SPP. Play those two on the same side, with the +AG/Guard guy protecting the SS/Tackle corner on the other side. Against Leap/Frenzy (or any ST3-4 Frenzy, really), this is a very potent thing, as it lets you set up the OLB one-back (with the corner adjacent, not diagonal) without fear of crowd-pushing, to give you an extra square or two of penetration into the opposing backfield. In this case, drop your safety back a square on that side, particularly if the Leap comes with high MA.

[DoubleSkulls]

How about diving tackle? he's already got tackle - so it means all those poncy elves won't be able to run away as effectively so he'll get to hit with MB more

That or another sidestep - lots of sidestep is much better than little.

[tenwit]

How about diving tackle?

There is a certain lack of silliness in this suggestion. Its unusefulness is small indeed.

[Biff]

Is the Blitzer with SS and Dodge close to going up again? If so, give this guy Frenzy, and then give the SS/D guy Guard at 31SPP. Play those two on the same side, with the +AG/Guard guy protecting the SS/Tackle corner on the other side. Against Leap/Frenzy (or any ST3-4 Frenzy, really), this is a very potent thing, as it lets you set up the OLB one-back (with the corner adjacent, not diagonal) without fear of crowd-pushing, to give you an extra square or two of penetration into the opposing backfield. In this case, drop your safety back a square on that side, particularly if the Leap comes with high MA.

Worth considering. I dont have any Frenzy yet, and it could come in handy.

The one thing that concerns me is that I havnt played orcs that much and would like to master Orc 101 first.

Thanks for the advice though.

[Cramy]

Is the Blitzer with SS and Dodge close to going up again? If so, give this guy Frenzy, and then give the SS/D guy Guard at 31SPP. Play those two on the same side, with the +AG/Guard guy protecting the SS/Tackle corner on the other side. Against Leap/Frenzy (or any ST3-4 Frenzy, really), this is a very potent thing, as it lets you set up the OLB one-back (with the corner adjacent, not diagonal) without fear of crowd-pushing, to give you an extra square or two of penetration into the opposing backfield. In this case, drop your safety back a square on that side, particularly if the Leap comes with high MA.

Worth considering. I dont have any Frenzy yet, and it could come in handy.

The one thing that concerns me is that I havnt played orcs that much and would like to master Orc 101 first.

Thanks for the advice though.

That's sound advice to yourself and other new Orc coaches. Master Orc 101 first, then move-on the the SideStep, Trolls, Goblins and other fancy stuff that may or may not happen (as doubles are required).

I find that Orcs are one of the best rosters out there, but people tend to get too fancy with them and if you screw-up, it can be hard to recuperate. Their stats line and positionals say that they may be able to handle the ball, but that really is not their forte. I got caught in that my first time with Orcs, and it was a mess.

Block, Guard, Mighty Blow and some Tackle on your players. Move the ball slowly and stay in control of the ball. Ideally the only agility roll that you have to do is picking-up the ball.

Once you get the handle of that, then start to experiment with the Troll and Goblins (which are a great addition if played right, but very frustrating if you are not sure how to use them) and fancier skills.

[mattgslater]

This is all Orc 101. Side Step is Stand Firm, only better. Frenzy as a #3 skill on the MB/Tackle guy and Guard on the Stand Firm/Dodge guy (or SS/Dodge in this case) is about as Orc 101 as it gets: the whole point of Orc Blitzers is to provide the main thrust for both pass-rush and wide defense, trusting the beef to do the job in the middle. Frenzy plays directly in with Block/MB/Tackle by increasing the opportunities to get a knockdown, and hence a casualty. 2D with Tackle/Frenzy says better than 90% to KD a WD, maximizing the value of Mighty Blow.

None of this is exotic, except that Stand Firm is replaced by its stronger cousin on account of a couple lucky rolls.

[Biff]

This is all Orc 101. Side Step is Stand Firm, only better. Frenzy as a #3 skill on the MB/Tackle guy and Guard on the Stand Firm/Dodge guy (or SS/Dodge in this case) is about as Orc 101 as it gets: the whole point of Orc Blitzers is to provide the main thrust for both pass-rush and wide defense, trusting the beef to do the job in the middle. Frenzy plays directly in with Block/MB/Tackle by increasing the opportunities to get a knockdown, and hence a casualty. 2D with Tackle/Frenzy says better than 90% to KD a WD, maximizing the value of Mighty Blow.

Yes, in theory maybe. I just want to see how the 2 guard + 2 Stand Firm (or in my case Side Step) really works.

On the other hand I could put a Guard BOB in the wide zone instead and play the frenzy guy as a safety/full back kind of player.

[DoubleSkulls]

BOBs should really stay out of the widezones if possible. They are slow enough that should your opponent go down the other side then they'll take a while to get into a reasonable position.

I like Orc defences something like this:

Code: Select all

____|__BTB__|____
__b_|B_____B|_b__
_b__|x_____x|__b_

B = Black Orc
b = Blitzer
T = Troll
X = Line Orc/Thrower/Goblin

The line backer BOBs canmove one square in, as can the X's, depending on relative team composition/skills.

That way only the strongest opponent can push down the middle - so goes down one side, where the BOBs/Trolls provide an immoveable barrier against them going back towards the middle, and the blitzers on the "wrong" side either move back and to the middle to provide cover against break aways or into the opposition half to pressure the ball carrier.

That is also why frenzy is such a good skill on blitzers because you have the strength that most opponents can't go down the middle so have to go near the sidelines.

[mattgslater]

Ian's diagram is textbook perfect or very close to it. The Blitzers on the corners should open with SS or SF... after that, the best skills for them are Guard, Grab and Tackle (Dodge on doubles). You've already been doing this: just keep it up. That's why I recommended Guard next on the SS/D guy; because it'll make him super-annoying, and in combo with a MB/T/Frenzy guy will just force non-Leapers to go the other way.

The linebacker-Blitzers protecting them are best developed as ball-handlers and pass-rushers/cage-breakers. The best skills for them are Frenzy, Mighty Blow and Tackle. Guard isn't terribly bad on them either, particularly vs. ST3, but it's no good vs. ST4, as those guys will just come in from along the sideline, bypassing the assist, and it will have no effect whatsoever on a big guy blitz (Ogre w/ Grab = 8/9 to punch a hole with or without Guard). SF/SS is good too, as a complement to Frenzy and Tackle, as are MA and AG bumps, as they help you turn the game over and build SPP.

On offense, a Dodge/SS/Guard guy is about as good an anchor as you can ask for for the front of your cage. Your oppo must get him down to get any benefit at all. You can't take his TZ away without knocking him down, you can't put his TZ anywhere he doesn't want it to go, and you can't knock him down without either serious luck or careful engineering. The Tackle/SS guy OTOH is better for the back of your cage so he's in a better position to run the ball down should the opponent somehow get it free.

[Biff]

Something like this?



Vs ST3 teams I put the troll and the ST5 BOB closer to the wide zones. Ill be facing a blitzing mino next match. How do I stop him?