Does defender get to use Mighty Blow during a block?

[Ullis]

My own opinion is yes, but I'd like to make sure (my own rat is on the line).

If I block a ST5 Ogre with a ST3 player, my opponent gets to decide which die to use. If I roll Skulls, does the Ogre get to use Mighty Blow on the subsequent armor and possible injury roll?

[mepmuff]

My own opinion is yes.

And your opinion is correct as well.

[Ullis]

It was only a stun anyway.

[Cramy]

Yes, Mighty Blow is used.

[Stout Youngblood]

Pg: 67 LRB 5.0

Mighty Blow (Strength)
Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when
an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block. Note that
you only modify one of the dice rolls, so if you decide to use Mighty Blow
to modify the Armour roll, you may not modify the Injury roll as well.
Mighty Blow cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skills.

Yes, your rat was knocked down as a result of a block action so the Ogre gets to use Mighty Blow.

[Ullis]

Actually the wording is a bit iffy. The relevant sections on page 10 regarding block dice results are as follows:

"ATTACKER DOWN: The attacking player is Knocked Down."

"PUSHED: The defending player is pushed back one square by the blocking player..."

"DEFENDER DOWN: The defending player is pushed back and then Knocked Down..."

"Knock Downs: A player that is Knocked Down should be placed on their side in the square, face up. The player may be injured (see Injuries, page 11). If the player who is Knocked Down comes from the moving team, then this caused a turnover and the moving team's turn ends immediately!"

When you look at all those, it isn't crystal clear whether the Knock Down is made by the defender, as required in the Mighty Blow skill:

"Mighty Blow (Strength)
Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block!"

The wording on the results refers to Knock Downs as just happening, but for the Defender Down -result we have a reference to the blocking player (i.e. the player initiating the block). So, to take a different viewpoint, MB refers to something active, whereas the wording on Knock Down seems a bit passive, something just happens (maybe the attacker bounces off the attacker, is dodged by the defender and fumbles or something).

Note that I'm happy with my stunned rat, but discussions on rules are always refreshing. Maybe I'm missing some part of the rules that might offer enlightenment.

[DoubleSkulls]

You get to use Mighty Blow

[Leilond]

Actually the wording is a bit iffy. The relevant sections on page 10 regarding block dice results are as follows:

"ATTACKER DOWN: The attacking player is Knocked Down."

"PUSHED: The defending player is pushed back one square by the blocking player..."

"DEFENDER DOWN: The defending player is pushed back and then Knocked Down..."

"Knock Downs: A player that is Knocked Down should be placed on their side in the square, face up. The player may be injured (see Injuries, page 11). If the player who is Knocked Down comes from the moving team, then this caused a turnover and the moving team's turn ends immediately!"

When you look at all those, it isn't crystal clear whether the Knock Down is made by the defender, as required in the Mighty Blow skill:

"Mighty Blow (Strength)
Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll made by a player with this skill when an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block!"

The wording on the results refers to Knock Downs as just happening, but for the Defender Down -result we have a reference to the blocking player (i.e. the player initiating the block). So, to take a different viewpoint, MB refers to something active, whereas the wording on Knock Down seems a bit passive, something just happens (maybe the attacker bounces off the attacker, is dodged by the defender and fumbles or something).

Note that I'm happy with my stunned rat, but discussions on rules are always refreshing. Maybe I'm missing some part of the rules that might offer enlightenment.

The rules of the mighty blow skill never talk about "blocking player" only "an opponent is knocked down by this player during a block"
I doesn't matter who is the "blocking player". The only requisite for using mighty blow is that your opponent is knocked down during a block. This is specified to make it clear that you cannot use claws during a foul (for example) or during an opponent failed dodge roll
Thus, mighty blow can be used if you are the blocker or the blocked

[Ullis]

You're really missing my point. I'm trying to figure out whether the defending player actually knocks down the blocking player or not. This is relevant because the wording for MB states that the skill can be used when a player is knocked down BY this player during a block. Knock downs happen for a variety of reasons and do not always require that someone else has anything to do with it (failed GFI's are the clearest example). This is something that a new (or old for that matter) player could easily have a problem with.

Here's the part on page 26 concerning SPP's.

Casualties (CAS): If a player causes an opposing player to be
removed as a Casualty then they earn 2 Star Player points. The
points are only earned if the player blocks an opponent or is
blocked by an opponent himself.

The meaning here is quite clear. You can get 2 SPP's if a player is blocked by someone else. The 2 SPP's are not reserved just for the blocker. I think this is the best justification for letting the defender use MB.

Assists do not matter. Assisting players skills don't count (pg. 21):

The result of the block only affects the two players directly
involved. Any assisting players are not affected. Similarly, only
the skills belonging to the two players directly involved in the
block may be used on the result. Skills belonging to assisting
players cannot be taken advantage of by either side.

And just as a reminder. This came up during play-by-email and I voluntarily rolled for injury on my poor rat. In case anyone's wondering, I had excellent reasons for throwing that block in the first place. Every one of you would've done it in my place.

[Old Man Draco]

Ehm, but you quoted yourself:

ATTACKER DOWN:
The attacking player is knocked down

So yes, a knock down occured and who else could be knocking your player down than the player you made a block against.

So mighty blow can be used.

I'm confused at what you are looking for.

[Aliboon]

Yeah, was gonna say what Draco did b4 I read his post-100% agree and cannot see any ambiguity.

[Ullis]

Well, players can be knocked down for a variety of reasons. For example:

Roll a D6 for the player after they have moved each extra square. On a roll of 1 the player trips up and is Knocked Down in the square that they moved to.

A player that is taking a Blitz Action may ‘go for it’ in order to make a block. Roll a D6 for the player after declaring that they will make the block. On a roll of 1 the player is Knocked Down as described above.

and

If the D6 roll is less than the required total, then the player is Knocked Down in the square he was dodging to and

In the examples, the player that is knocked down is not knocked down by any other player. The word "by" is relevant because its in the MB skill description.

But this is going nowhere. Not enough love for rules lawyering.

[Leilond]

NO
The mighty blow clearly say DURING A BLOCK
Thus, the failed dodge isn't an issue becaus of this and not because of your beloved "by"
If ther wasn't the "during a block" sentence, mighty blow could be used during a foul or other situation where you're entitled to roll an armor/injury roll

Are you knocked down during a block? Yes
Does your opponent have the mighty blow skill? Yes (there is always ONLY two opponents during a block)

You're trying to convince all us that you're the only one the correctly read the rules. Well, I play in a 48 player leagues, read 4 different forums of 3 different countries, no one play like you say.

[Ullis]

My own opinion is yes, but I'd like to make sure

Note that I'm happy with my stunned rat, but discussions on rules are always refreshing.

And just as a reminder. This came up during play-by-email and I voluntarily rolled for injury on my poor rat.

I'll stop after this because this is going nowhere, but I'm not saying that a player would not get to use MB. I'm not just trying to be smart here, but I honestly wasn't sure when the issue came up. This got me looking at the rulebook and I really couldn't be 100% sure.

[landrover]

Don't worry about it too much.
You CAN be sure that if your player (with MB) is blocked and the attacker rolls a skull, your player DOES get to use his/her* MB on the armour/injury roll*.

Trust us.




*delete as appropriate