What to do when it all goes wrong...

Slothman · Post by **Slothman** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:29 am

Journeyman are free....but dont they add to Team Value??

mepmuff · Post by **mepmuff** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:34 am

Yes, journeymen cost no money, but do count towards TV. So if you know roughly what TV your next opponent will have it might be an option to not take one journeyman if that let's you get a MERC bull.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:32 am

That's how my reasoning worked as well. Assuming the other teams are at TV100+ (since they all started at the same time?) the journeymen can be calculated together with inducements. Zzharg looks like quite a deal, ST4 and AG3. I'd say the problem is having enough players to make sure that you can choose for yourself when fielding him. Don't want him on the pitch on turn 8 of the first drive. That would add up to at least the 2 journeymen Hobs, Zzargh and one merc hobgoblin for a total of 13 players, which doesn't look too good.

How about a bribe and hope that fouling gets you superior numbers? Zzargh and a bribe might be an option too as Zzargh does look like a good option with Sure Hands, Passing skills, ST4 and AG3.

Leilond · Post by **Leilond** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:56 am

mepmuff wrote:Yes, journeymen cost no money, but do count towards TV. So if you know roughly what TV your next opponent will have it might be an option to not take one journeyman if that let's you get a MERC bull.

Yes, but he lost 260.000 TV with the death of the bull centaurs
Suppose his opponent has 1.000.000 TV
He can get the two FREE journeyman that worth 40.000 each
He still have 180.000 inducement value, that is more than he needs for a bull centaur mercenary completed with a desired skill (160.000 needed)
This way he can start the game with at least 12 players

Subhedgehog · Post by **Subhedgehog** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:44 pm

mepmuff wrote:Yes, journeymen cost no money, but do count towards TV. So if you know roughly what TV your next opponent will have it might be an option to not take one journeyman if that let's you get a MERC bull.

The way I read the rules, you do not have the option of refusing journeymen to get more inducements. You get journeymen on your roster at the end of a league match, and calculate inducements at the start of your next match.

You must have journeymen to fill up to 11 players. Mercs and star players do not take their spot but just supplement the roster.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:53 pm

Subhedgehog wrote:The way I read the rules, you do not have the option of refusing journeymen to get more inducements.

I thought the same thing, but we were both wrong. See page 29 of the rulebook (bolded by me):

7. If your team can only field 10 or less players for the next
match, you may bring Journeymen onto your team for free
until your team can field 11 players for the next match.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:55 pm

No. you do not have to take journeymen at the end of your match.

You are compelled by the rule of 11 to play 11 players for a drive if you have them. But nothing forces you to carry 11 on your roster. journeymen are optional.

The trick being that journeymen are only able to be gotten at post match for free. When the next match starts they become 30k more expensive to hire at that time.

I have routinely not taken journeymen to play with 9 or 10 wood elves, or to get a merc lineman with a skill instead of journeymen.

mepmuff · Post by **mepmuff** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:57 pm

Subhedgehog wrote:
mepmuff wrote:Yes, journeymen cost no money, but do count towards TV. So if you know roughly what TV your next opponent will have it might be an option to not take one journeyman if that let's you get a MERC bull.
The way I read the rules, you do not have the option of refusing journeymen to get more inducements. You get journeymen on your roster at the end of a league match, and calculate inducements at the start of your next match.

You must have journeymen to fill up to 11 players. Mercs and star players do not take their spot but just supplement the roster.

You're not required to take the journeymen and if you dont take them they wont add to your TV. You're right that it's in the postgame sequence that you have to decide, but you're perfectly free to guess the TV of your next opponent and use that to decide.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:10 pm

Zzharg is problematic because of Secret Weapon.

What do you really want?

1) 11 Players.
2) Mechanisms to build SPP among existing players.
3) Some hope of winning.

With that in mind, here are some things I'd consider:
A) Journeyman HGs: at 40k each, they're a good value.
B) Merc BC: Who needs a Wizard? If you skill him, give him Block.
C) Merc CD: Get a Guard-boy to hold down your nose against low ST or a Dauntless-boy to stick on a Big Guy.
D) Bloodweiser Babes to keep your Hobgoblins coming back.

Notably, if your opponent has only 11 guys and gives you 100k in handicap after you take your Journeymen, you can get a Merc Dwarf. Do this, as you will now have a good use for those Journeyman Hobs and any others you hire as foulers: a Merc Hob is cheaper than a bribe, and a Merc Dwarf is the same price, freeing up a Journeyman Hob.

Leilond · Post by **Leilond** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:11 pm

If your opponent has a normal 1.000.000 TV, you can take the two mercs AND a skilled bull centaur merc

Subhedgehog · Post by **Subhedgehog** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:37 pm

Ah, thanks for the correction Ullis and mepmuff. I just started a scheduled 10 game league with Pro Elves, and lost a blitzer and catcher in the first game and a line elf in the second... So I'm in the position of scoping my opponents current TV and guessing what their next match will bring them to before I face them.

Hmmm...

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:47 am

No-one appears to have mentioned the Wizard.

He's great value as an inducement.

And, yes, I have recovered from a similar situation in a league with Chaos Dwarfs.

Hope this helps.

Smeborg

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:26 am

Wizards are expensive, and worth it when numbers aren't a critical concern. Used right, a Wizard pops a hole or drops a ball carrier, and probably is worth a TD on average. But you need bodies. Once you have two JM Hobs and a Merc BC, it becomes an option to compete with a Merc CD, Zzharg, a skill on a Merc, a Babe, a Merc Hob with DP... If I were playing Dwarfs next, I'd probably consider a Wizard against a TV deficit large enough to cover a Merc CD with Guard (150k) and two JM Hobs (80k) plus the Wizard, as Dwarfs are heavily dependent upon a few players. The same is sometimes true with Necromantic or Undead teams: zap one guy and suddenly there's no offense (even moreso for Khemri, but in that case forgo the Guard Dwarf for a DP Hob or Dauntless Dwarf). It's also good against Woodies, as it's a reliable way to KD a Wardancer or (even better) make their offense drop the ball in the backfield.

One thing here: while I really like the Wandering Apo, I don't think it's a good choice here. You really don't have to fear further damage, as everything worth carrying an Apothecary for is already dead. Ask me again after you've bought a BC and I'll give you a different opinion. A single Babe, however, might be a good buy, as you are dependent on AV7 players to move the ball, and your other guys are too tough and sluggish to make good targets. That's the real reason the Hobs and BCs take a beating even on successful teams.

Question for Razorclaws: Who's your next opponent?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:31 am

Subhedgehog wrote:Ah, thanks for the correction Ullis and mepmuff. I just started a scheduled 10 game league with Pro Elves, and lost a blitzer and catcher in the first game and a line elf in the second... So I'm in the position of scoping my opponents current TV and guessing what their next match will bring them to before I face them.

Hmmm...

I don't have the rule book handy (and no access to download) but I'm 90% sure this isn't quite right. My understanding is:

You chose to take journeymen at the end of one game during the post match sequence. They do add to TV, but don't cost money.

Then at the beginning of the next game you calculate inducements to work out the difference. So you have already decided whether to take journeymen or not. That affects the inducements available and you can't "tweak" journeymen numbers during the pre-game to get different inducements.

Journeymen then come off the roster during the post match sequence.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:40 am

A lot of leagues merge post- and pre- game phases. Usually there's no problem tweaking the journeymen you take, so long you do it before inducements are calculated. And even if the rules are strictly adhered to, most of the time you know who you'll be up against in the next game during the post-game phase.