Halfling team. (Noob).

Want to know how to beat your opponents, then get advice, or give advice here.

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Tackledummy
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Post by Tackledummy »

Second half a reduced offence and constant bad rolling left my opponent struggling to get anywhere. He finally gets his space and a long bomb to a catcher I get a mob close to the carrier and lob a 'ling in hope. Hit and taken out of the game. 1-0 robbery.
Hehehe, that's outstanding mate. Well done. :D

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jammydodger
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Post by jammydodger »

stoopid idea, regarding improving the 'stunty' teams (including ogres): increase the number of roster spaces to 18. not sure how bad a plan, but been sitting in the back of my mind like a toad, so thought i might offer it up.
jammer / cws

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duttydave
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Post by duttydave »

I'm just finishing painting up my 'flings ready for the next league.

I was hoping that one or more experienced Halfling Coaches would advise on the optimal offensive set ups against different teams.

Trees on the line of scrimmage is a 'no brainer' but..........

Do you use the same set up against a fast agile team as you would against a slow bashy team when receiving?

If not, how is it best to set up the Halflings?

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Oerjan
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Post by Oerjan »

Hello,

Being a long-ago 'fling coach who is slowly getting up to speed with LRB5 (and all its fancy new skills :P ), I've found this thread extremely useful :) A few questions:
GalakStarscraper wrote: Playing:

I like to use this Defense against teams without Frenzy (if I don't have Deeproot) ... (if you have Deeproot move players 1 and 2 one square to the sidelines and have Deeproot be on one of the outside LOS spots): Fling Defense
Against teams with Frenzy ... move the wide zone player closest to the LOS one square closer to the center of the pitch. This prevents a frenzy blitz taking any wide zone player off the pitch. Fling Defense - Frenzy

Then get Diving Tackle on 4 and 5 first, and then 6 and 7.
Hm. Which ones are the trees? I'd assume 1 and 2 (or if Deeproot is present, the on-team trees would be in positions 2 and 3 with Deeproot being 1), but I'm a bit confused by the "If you have Deeproot ..." comment above. Also, if 1 and 2 are trees and the team has 6 DT defenders - where do the last two go?

***
Regarding skills:

- Is Kick-Off Return worth using for 'flings? It won't allow the 'flings to bring a deep kick forward fast enough for a single-turn TTM play, but it should ensure that a single 'fling would be able to reach a deeply-kicked ball with a single move no matter where in the back field it lands. (And since any G-access team in my neighbourhood will pick up Kick ASAP, balls will be deeply kicked in the first half or so of the game - ie., until I've managed to mug their Kicker :x)

- Similarly, what about Kick? I know how just much I hate having it used against me, but now that Kick-Off Return is available to any G-access team even Dwarfs shouldn't be that seriously slowed down by a deep kick.

- Pass Block? I used to have a fair amount of success with a +1 AG, Catch, Pass Block 'fling until he was murdered by an irate Wood Elf team (that's the only time so far I've seen a 4-player foul on a halfling :cry: ), but I haven't seen this skill mentioned anywhere in the various 'fling discussions... 'course, the fate of my interceptor might explain why - too annoying and too vulnerable :-?

Regards,

Oerjan

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Aliboon
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Post by Aliboon »

I'm no 'fling player, but I do play gobbos and I think that the reason that kick off return and pass block are not mentioned is that they are probably not optimal for doubles choices-wrestle, block, strip ball, sure hands and dirty player are probably all better-but if your 'fling got AG and catch b4 the others, pass block would have made him a very naughty player and I can see that Koff return would be useful on such a slow team.

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Ikterus
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Post by Ikterus »

I'll ad on to this necro-post by suggesting that this excellent guide by Galak could be added to a sticky called "Playbooks" or something similar.

I think that a sticky where playbooks and tacticas could be read would be a big help for many users make ground for a lot of rewarding discussions.

MODs please consider this!

/Ikterus

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cyagen
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Post by cyagen »

Having played against Galak's 'flings in the MBBL I can tell you that he is the best stunty coach I've played.

I won because Nuffle was on my side, it was a VERY challenging game. I never though that I would need to use all of my playbook against flings.

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Ikterus
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Post by Ikterus »

cyagen wrote:I never though that I would need to use all of my playbook against flings.
So is that a playbook you would like to share? :wink:

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Oerjan
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Post by Oerjan »

Back with some more questions; hopefully Galak will see them eventually...

- The 250 kgp not spent in Galak's set-up are just kept in the treasury forever (or until a true crisis arises, eg. both trees are killed or crippled) to keep the TV low, yesno?

- Hail Mary Pass – is this useful or not for ‘flings in LRB5? (It used to be fairly useful in the olden days, but with all the new skills that have appeared since then there could easily be a new skill or skill combo that negates it.)

- In Nerves of Steel and/or Pass useful for the trees in LRB5? Pass seems to have lost a bit now that TTMs only need a 2+ to avoid a fumble. NoS OTOH... in the far past my trees often picked the ball carrier up from the midst of the opposing team to throw him somewhere safer, so having NoS to negate all those TZs was quite useful (and it also made single-turn TTM plays easier since there’s no need to remove enemy TZs from a NoS tree before the throw). Is that still the case in LRB5, or has the various TTM changes reduced the value of NoS too?

- If a tree rolls a double ‘5’, is +1 MA more worth than the double skill nowadays? (In my long-ago experience, trees usually developed rather slowly so the probability of having a tree with more than one doubles skill was pretty low; and since my trees usually couldn't move more than 1 square before getting into an opponent's TZ anyway, they wouldn't have gotten that much use out of MA3.)

- How do 'flings deal with Leapers? I've always had difficulties with wardancers, but at least there are only 2-3 of them on the pitch at the same time (including Star Players, of course); but now one of the local players is building a Slann team... <shudder> If I remember/understand the rules correctly, Galak's 3-4-4 defences above can both be Leaped over by passing one single unmodified AG roll: move up to the square beside player 1 (or 2), jump to the square two squares behind him, then run down the central avenue unhindered thus bypassing all the Diving Tackle defenders :-(

The only anti-Leap set-ups I’ve come up with so far are sparse 3-3-5s, either with the Trees spread out to cover the entire LOS, one ‘fling 1 square back from the LOS in each WZ and one directly behind one of the trees, and a back line of 5 defenders 2-3 squares behind the others. (If the team only has two trees, they’ll have to deploy closer together and the ‘flings have to cover more of the LOS.) This feels horribly casualty-prone though – only one of the trees is protected from being overwhelmed, and the forward Wide Zone players are vulnerable to both Frenzy and Quick Snaps (and can’t be moved either backwards or inwards, since moving back would make it easier to Leap past the first line to Blitz the rear-line Defenders and moving in would directly expose the WZ Defender to a Blitz).

- *Kick* as the first double skill on the Booter? I would’ve thunk DP was the automatic choice for the fouling-specialist - OK, it has been toned down in LRB5, but it still improves the odds of a successful foul quite a bit... Also, with all the Defenders deployed in the rear line, the only places left to deploy a Kicker are all exposed to the recieving team’s first Blitz – which probably means that the Kicker will die rather quickly... particularly if he is also a Booter and thus has a big bulls-eye painted on him already :-(

- What about using Special Play, Wizards or Mercenaries as inducements?

- Are the new star players available to the 'flings in the 2007 experimental rules any good? Zara is excellent against Khemri etc.; what about Bertha Bigfist and Willow Rosebark? (IOW, is it worth the effort to convert models to represent them? <g>)

Regards,

Oerjan

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Andromidius
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Post by Andromidius »

1/ Sounds about right. Keeping Team Value down is all part of being a Halfling - you need those inducements!

2/ Hail Mary is useful, simply because Halflings are slow and useless at short pass play. Simply picking up the ball and hurling it to the other side of the pitch could prove very useful. At least then your opponant has to go back, pick up up, and come back again to score.

3/ Nerves of Steel might work, if you rely alot on TTM scoring. Though I'm not sure if I'd prefer Block or not as a double skill on a Treeman.

4/ +MA on a Treeman is pretty pointless, since he'll probably root himself quite quickly anyway. And he'll still be the slowest player in the game (well, equal with Mummies). Take the skill! +ST, however...

5/ Reroll denial is the only way to stop Leapers. If your opponant has none because of a Master Chef, they know there's a 1/6 chance of failing and causing a turnover. And he knows exactly what your Halflings are about to do to his expensive prone player... Otherwise just grit your teeth like everyone else.

6/ Kick is still a useful skill for Halflings. It lets you OTT even when on the defense with a TTM iand alot of luck. Though obviously it'll only usually work against slower teams.

7/ The 'solid' stuff is usually best. Deeproot, Master Chefs, Babes and Bribes are the bread and butter of Halfling inducements. Though if one of your Trees is missing a match, hiring a Merc might be a good idea (especially if you can't afford Deeproot).

~Andromidius

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

1) Yes - a bucket of cash to keep replacing those dead 'flings & trees so you don't drop too low

2) Yes HMP is still good at moving the ball

3) NoS would be a waste IMO on a tree. Doubles are better on pro, block & pass IMO (and in that order).

4) Double 5s I'd take the double. 6,4 I'd take the MA.

5) Flings have a good defence against leaping - reroll denial. Otherwise it emphasises the value of sure hands on a double. The other thing is diving tackle is excellent at encouraging your opponent to leap instead of dodge so layers of DT can prevent. This doesn't work on an initial defensive set up, but not a lot you or anyone else can do about that... TBH anti-leap defence is probably the least of your worries.

6) Doubles really feels like Block or Sure Hands for me first up. DP for 2nd or 3rd player to get a double. Kick is pretty good for flings because it means you are more likely to be able to spread the play and exploit any early errors.

7) Merc trees are good value IMO, if you don't have both and can afford them. Wizards are good against many teams since it ought to allow you to stop them scoring once.

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Post by Oerjan »

Thanks for the answers :)

BTW, in a previous 'fling thread Galak mentioned an experimental change to Right Stuff that affects the Dodge/Tackle interaction. Search as I may, I can't find a complete description of this proposal anywhere. (I have however found a lot of posts explaining that since it is Right Stuff that is changed, it won't improve Skinks any...)

So... what is (or was?) the proposed change to Right Stuff, and what (if anything?) has happened to it?

Later,

Oerjan

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Post by PubBowler »

I WAS that Right Stuff cancels Tackles effect on blocking.
So a goblin, halfing or snotling would stay up on a defender stumble result.

It was ditched in favor of testing a change to stunty from +1 to injury to a 9 on the CAS role being BH.

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Post by sann0638 »

Just going to do a bit of a necro on this thread, and make no apology for it. Having played a halfling coach at the weekend I've decided to make a real go of them (tourney, MBBL and tabletop environment). Because I knew the guide on page 1 was here, I was able to find it, but it would be helpful if it were immediately available somewhere (I couldn't find it anywhere obvious on here or NAF).

Stickyable, or somesuch?

Mike

PS Galak's inducement guide will also need updating for the 50k chef, natch.

PPS Wish I'd found it before I made my MBBL team :oops:

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Post by Carnis »

Do you really think giving up 90k+60k in inducements is worth possible denial of 1-2 rerolls during the game (cheering fans/brill coaching is really rare, actually just 10/36 per kick-off) (9FF+Coach+Cheer).

Our local fling coach plays 2 trees, 9-12 halflings, no apothecary, 2 rerolls, 0FF, 0Cheer/Coach. Induces chef first, then the heroes just like in Galak's guide. Usually he fields chef+deeproot+morg.

If he can manage he'll try get wizard+1 babe as well. A wizard can be a game changer, or a minor nuisance, at best it can be a lightning on the ballcarry at the start of fling's turn, followed up by a quick TTM+score.

Also, he doesn't even try to cover the field. He hides his halflings behind the 3 trees (+morg), who spread out and cover the entire LOS (+3 squares to the sides). A Block/MB/PO player with frenzy or tackle has totally insane odds of removing halflings, so spreading out and area based defense doesn't really work in a league setting with advanced players.

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