Witch elf double five advice?

[PubBowler]

I would take the MA.

But I wanted to defend the choice of Wrestle as a Block substitute.

Your Witch shouldn't be carrying the ball.
Jump Up almost negates the MA cost of being prone.
Fouling is pretty well nerfed in LRB5.
Wrestle is great against ball carriers and slow cages.

[mattgslater]

Yup, you are in fact TWICE as likely to roll doubles as 10 on 2d6 (bearing in mind that 5+5 hits both categories).

Kind of... there are 4 perms for doubles, two perms for ten, one perm for either and one perm for doubles you won't take (+ST). However, on any given player, they're all very rare, and you shouldn't consider scarcity when making these decisions.

[Jural]

...However, on any given player, they're all very rare, and you shouldn't consider scarcity when making these decisions.

Except for exceptional players (+STR, +AG, some doubles skills) I don't think you should consider scarcity on individual players, but rather on groups of players.

For Dark Elves, I see 6 fairly equivalent players who can benefit from Mighty Blow. Generally my positionals will get to an average of three advances each by the end of 20 games. That's an average of ~3 doubles chances, so I'll take the +MA over doubles on this player (if she was Strength 4, Mighty Blow is the way to go)

In a short term league, I'd still take the MA though.

[ceetee]

Double fives are a nightmare choice for a witches first skill roll - it gives you all the flexibility in the world but on the only roll where you want a regular roll to take block. The same happened to me in a league a couple of years ago.

Since she was to be my defensive safety/hunterkiller i gave her mighty blow, thinking it'd be my only chance for that double. Gutted when i gave up her next roll (AG+1!) for block! Looking back, i should have given her the MA+1 originally so she could spread the love.

On the topic of wrestle as a skills choice, i took this to the 2007 tourney and wished i hadn't. I'd planned to use her to counter blodgers as a take-down hitter. i found that in a limited games resurrection set up, the witch is often a ball carrier, either as a result of blitzing the oppo ball carrier, or because she's open downfield for a pass after spanging someone into row 17. A ball carrier with block stays upright on a both down, one with wrestle goes over and someone has to pick up in the next turn.

Finally, i find it near impossible to get casualties with my dark elves, and wrestle on one of my bashiest players tends to limit bloodletting even further.

Sorry to rant, but i'm avoiding doing my work.

Ceetee

[bouf]

Even from her back, she is a threat!... Vote for +MA again here too.

+MA,
Wrestle or Block, (Wrestle)
Diving Tackle or Side step,
Side step or Diving Tackle,
Tackle,

Everyone is scared of getting fouled now a days, but it's not as bad as it used to be... Sure the Witch is AV7 but you have the agility to move in protective players should she end up in a bad spot.

The chance of getting ejected is way too high to make Fouling worth Worrying about. (Unless your opponent has a Sneaky Git & Dirty Player jerk, then it's worth worrying about)

[grampyseer]

I'm on the MV train too.

...Like a Wood elf, but way hittier.........and in leather!

[grampyseer]

....Wood elves would, of course, wear velour.

[TeflonDon]

Thanks for all the replies - I'm somewhat comforted that I am not the only one who finds 5+5 a challenging choice as a first skill:-)

Wrestle has been brought up, but that one is out - if I am going in that direction I'd rather take juggernaut, which will allow me to treat both down as a push back when blitzing, giving her another hit at the ball carrier.

But hitting the ball carrier is not going to be her main thing - I've already got two blitzers with leap, who are going in that direction.

The MA has recieved a lot of support, and I agree that the DEs lack speed - I've often found myself wanting just that extra dot of movement, and on a witch it would be very valuable, as it would allow me to set her up two spaces into my own half on defence, and still be able to reach the end zone in two turns without making GFI rolls.

AV is out - it may be a very sensible long term choice, but for now I feel it would give me too little advantage. Also while she will certainly see a lot of action I am quite good at protecting my players, and there are a lot more attractive targets on my team (especially once she gets block). My regular opponents would much rather hurt an AG5 blitzer without dodge, a ST4 runner (who hasen't even got block yet) or one of my Guard linemen (especially the one whom I will give leap as his second advance), so the "oly" beatings she will take are the ones she will get when she is in the way of my opponent. And hopefully blodge will get her through that, once she gets her second skill.

At the moment I am inclined to taking the MA, probably with MB as my second priority. And I apreciate all the input.

[AK_Dave]

I say +MA as well.

[AK_Dave]

I say +MA as well. I think this gives more tactical options, opens up more of the field, and threatens both players and scoring. I love using a Witch Elf as a scoring threat, knowing that if my opponent doesn't do a good job of stomping her to the ground she'll hop up, dodge out, and be perfectly positioned to nab a TD. But she can just as easily hop up and Frenzy someone next to her. MA8 makes it harder for opponents to get around in front of her once she crosses the LOS into scoring range, and means they'll have to go after her with faster, and/or often more fragile, blitzers and assistants.

Favorite WE move was when I had one Frenzy a Human Lineman 7 spaces off the LOS until he finally went down (KO!) and she was positioned to nab a pass next turn for a TD.

Other teams send eligible receivers downfield who can barely take care of themselves. Stuff a WE deep downfield..

[Joemanji]

I've never regretted taking MA (except on totally unskilled teams like Chaos). It seems dull, but actually it is always, always useful.

[AK_Dave]

My last game, DE vs Orc, I ended up pushing so much that I would have loved to see +MA come up on ANY player. Every position, and almost every player except a couple lineelfs, had need to push at least once or twice. +MA cannot be underrated.

[Jural]

Well, neither can guard, Mighty Blow, or +AV on an AV 7 target

[bouf]

+MA
Block/Wrestle
Shadowing
Diving Tackle
Side step
Dodge/Frenzy/Jump Up

Maybe I'm salivating a little here... but wow that 'd be nice!

[Jural]

+MA
Block/Wrestle
Shadowing
Diving Tackle
Side step
Dodge/Frenzy/Jump Up

Maybe I'm salivating a little here... but wow that 'd be nice!

My experience with Dark Elves? The witch peaks at:

7 3 4 7 Dodge, Jump Up, Frenzy, Block, Side Step

Unless you pick up a stat increase or a doubles roll, the witch does not get significantly better with a 3rd skill. Fend is tempting, of course, but so far I've not seen my money's worth.

Same with blitzers, to a lesser degree. Once you have all of them with blodge, 2 side steppers, 2 leapers, and (maybe) 2 dauntless players is really the peak without the doubles and stat increaes.

Actually, the team also needs 2X strip ball and some tackle, and diving tackle... but I've found the above skills really are a detriment to the overall team if the league isn't skewed towards finesse.

Dark Elves are so expensive... the choices made really can handicap you against the flat out bash teams (where you don't have normal skill access to really fight back.)