Orcs TV 110. Troll or no?

[Halskov1]

Hi, I'm thinking about starting a new Orc team TV 110. It's for a 5-game league about 50/50 bash/finesse, but the team will probably join another league after that. I'm hampered a bit by my extraordinary dislike for Big Guys and the Bone Head/Really Stupid/WA unrealiability factor. Thus I'm thinking of taking this:

1 Blitzer
2 Blitzer
3 Blitzer
4 Blitzer
5 BO
6 BO
7 BO
8 BO
9 Thrower
10 Line
11 Line

RR: 4 Apo: yes FF:0

It should be noted that the team will play in a league with some developed teams and we have a house rule that will award +20.000 gold and 1 extra MVP in the two first games to kick-start the newer teams. (one of the reasons I am thinking of starting just 11 players is to have a greater chance of giving MVP's to Black orcs).

So my question is: should I cut a re-roll and buy the damn stupid troll? If I do buy him, what role should he play in the team that the BO's can't do a little less effectively, but a lot more realiably? (and I'm not talking about one turn TD's with TTM).

Any advice on the troll issue and the roster in general will be appreciated.

[stashman]

Your team is good as it is!

Trolls are not so needed in the begining.

Buy troll after your apo.

[PubBowler]

I agree on waiting on the Troll.

And he is marginally better at holding a line against a bashy offense (Guard & Stand Firm build).

But it is marginal.

[whitetiger]

I agree that the troll really isn't necessary on an Orc team. Build the BOBs and then if you need the extra strength later on you can get him then. And in the mean time, hope and pray for a 12 roll on a BOB.

I'd just buy a couple of linos to put in the reserve box for knock outs and such.

[DoubleSkulls]

I'd probably want to start with the troll IF I thought I'd play the team for more than 5 games. If its 5 games and you are done then your instinct is correct he's too unreliable.

Longer term - because you've got a chance of getting 2 or 3 skills - then the odds of block get reasonably good.

[mattgslater]

I'm with Ian.

1) Trolls are unreliable.

2) Trolls improve slowly... unless they don't.

3) A Troll, 4 BOBs and 4 Blitzers makes anybody's heart sink. With a ST4/5 line and no Blitz targets without AV9 and either ST4 or Block, I think maxed-out Orcs have the best defense in the game, by a big wide margin.

4) The Troll is, after the Mummy, the best value on a Nose Tackle in the game.

[whitetiger]

A BOB with block and stand firm makes for a pretty good nose tackle. I'd still use the money to get all the BOBs and Blitzers first. You can always buy a troll later.

[Pipey]

I've played Orcs for a long time and am still wrestling with this one.

I've narrowed it down to three basic options. With 4 Blitzers / 4 Black Orcs / Thrower taken as standard these are:

1. with Troll, 3RR (12 players)

2. without Troll, 3RR (13 players)

3. without Troll, 4RR (12 players)


My most recent thinking is that 4RR is the best option. You might well need 4 depending on how unreliable your BOBs blccking is.

[mattgslater]

A BOB with block and stand firm makes for a pretty good nose tackle.

Only drawback: a BOB is a superlative defensive end, inside linebacker, and nickel-package outside LB (they're the same thing, really). In the standard BB 3-4 you need two DEs and two ILBs, and you get 0-4 BOBs. With a Troll at NT, your opponent simply can't blitz inside if he's relying on a single hit vs. ST3... there just isn't one to be had. This lets you use Blitzers on the corner and at outside LB, developing the former with Stand Firm, Frenzy and Mighty Blow, and the latter with Guard, Tackle and Mighty Blow.

[Halskov1]

Thanks a lot for the advice. However, and I am loathe to admit this, I am a little baffled by the terminology. Could anybody explain to me the position of the nose tackle and the different kinds of linebackers?

(In return I promise to watch some NFL, when I get the chance)

[mattgslater]

Defensive Positions
* Defensive End: the guys on either end of the defensive line. By definition, there are always exactly two.
* Defensive Tackle: the guys on the line who aren't on the ends. If one of them stands in the middle, he's the Nose Tackle. In BB, since most D-lines are 3-man, DT and NT are almost interchangeable terms (not quite).
* Linebacker: The guys placed in the front row behind the line. In BB, this term is often vague or equivocal. Heck, that's true in football. In a staggered-line backfield, however, which I'm suggesting for you, the four linebackers are easily identified. The inside linebackers are next to the wide zones, while the outside linebackers are in the wide zones next to the cornerbacks.
* Cornerback: The guys defending the sidelines.
* Safety: The guys protected by the other players so they can maneuver within the backfield.

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- DE NT DE -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- LB --|-- LB -- -- -- LB --|-- LB -- --
-- CB -- --|Sa -- -- -- -- -- Sa|-- -- CB --

Or, in context,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- BZ -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- BZ --

Or vs. fast teams,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- -- -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- -- --
-- BZ -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BZ --

[Killjoy]

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- DE NT DE -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- LB --|-- LB -- -- -- LB --|-- LB -- --
-- CB -- --|Sa -- -- -- -- -- Sa|-- -- CB --

Or, in context,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- BZ -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- BZ --

Or vs. fast teams,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- -- -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- -- --
-- BZ -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BZ --

Very good advise indeed. What I wonder, is how you set up an orc defense with only 10 or 9 Players (asuming TH and LM get send of the the pitch).

[Digger Goreman]

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- DE NT DE -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- LB --|-- LB -- -- -- LB --|-- LB -- --
-- CB -- --|Sa -- -- -- -- -- Sa|-- -- CB --

Or, in context,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- BZ -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- BZ --

Or vs. fast teams,

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- LM -- --
-- -- -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- -- --
-- BZ -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BZ --

Very good advise indeed. What I wonder, is how you set up an orc defense with only 10 or 9 Players (asuming TH and LM get send of the the pitch).

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BO --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- BO -- --
-- -- -- --|BZ -- -- -- -- -- BZ|-- -- -- --
-- BZ -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- BZ --

This wouldn't be the first time I put Black Orcs in the wings... it's hard to move 4 ST (and if they have Stand Firm, you can switch positions with outer blitzers)... and if you do blitz 'em, you're open for counter blitzing....

[mattgslater]

I like Digger's 9-man setup. With 9, you can't keep them out, but you might be able to decide for them where to go in. With 10, I'd use either the 11 man setup with a safety out and the other in the middle column, 2 or 3 back.

Generally, here's what I think of substitute formations from man-down with Orcs. Below 9 men, you're just up the creek, as you don't have the speed to cover enough territory unless your opponent is really beat-up.

Troll: If the Troll goes down, the line gets much weaker, and against a heavy team it really shifts my defensive strategy. Generally this means that I either move up a lino or Blitzer to the nose (against ST3) to do something like Digger advises, or that I move to a 3-3 with all BOBs on the line (vs. bash), and a BOB behind the nose at middle linebacker. In the latter case, I might bunch up a bit and cede the wide square against a slower opponent or if my BOBs don't have Block. Blitzers with positioning skills pay dividends on the corners in that case.

BOB: I might do something similar to a lost Troll with a lost BOB, but if I have a player designed as a backup corner, I'll stick him in at inside LB instead. Frequently in a league I buy SF on a third Blitzer eventually (usually the #3 skill on one of the OLBs as well as the #1 skill on the corners) just for this purpose.

Blitzer: If a corner is missing, I fill in with an outside LB. If an outside LB is missing, I fill in with a Thrower or Lino.

Safety: If a safety is missing, I just let it go. Sometimes I'll move my one remaining safety to the middle file.