Clarify frenzy

[whitetiger]

Had a discussion the other night and would like to clarify here.

A frenzy player with the block skill makes a block against a player with the block skill. The frenzy player rolls a "both down". The frenzy player then threw another block.

I think "both down" ends the frenzy since in the skill rule it states that if the frenzy player rolls a "push" or a "defender stumbles" then they can roll for a second block.

Also, from the wording of the skill, a frenzy player must "go for it" to make a second block if they have the movement left.

[plasmoid]

The 2nd block was illegal.
Frenzy mentions the exclusive conditions under which you can (indeed must) throw a second block.
Rolling a push. Or rolling defender stumbles.
So it does not work when rolling/selecting another result.

Cheers
Martin

[whitetiger]

That's what I thought. Has to be a push or defender stumbles result to get the second block.

What about the "must" go for it for the second block?

[GalakStarscraper]

What about the "must" go for it for the second block?

Yes, you "must" go for it for the 2nd block of a Frenzy if you have not already used your 2nd Go For It.

(note: as this was addressed a long time ago ... IF a player has Frenzy and Sprint he does NOT have to GFI for the 3rd GFI. Sprint is not a skill you can be forced to use ... so that 3rd GFI is always optional even with Frenzy).

Galak

[Jural]

And the other common question- If you roll a push against Stand Firm with your first Frenzy block such that both players remain in their original squares, you must then throw a second block (and GFI to do so.)

[whitetiger]

That's what I thought on both counts. I was outvoted the other night. I'll be printing this and taking it along on Thursday.

[madrobot]

And the other common question- If you roll a push against Stand Firm with your first Frenzy block such that both players remain in their original squares, you must then throw a second block (and GFI to do so.)

This would be good to have in the F.A.Q section of the LRB. We've never played it this way in my league. Any time it has come up in tournaments that I have been to, players have always assumed that Stand Firm canceled frenzy. Upon closer reading of the rules, I can see how this is not the case, but it seems a little counter-intuitive.

[Amadan]

that's a good question, i'd be curious about how the Frenzy and stand firm works out, cause i have a Mino on my team, and a friend has a treeman, they routinely bash heads, but if i'm blitzing, and i get a push....... then i would love to be allowed to throw another block.

the way i interpreted the ruling though was the other guy had to move... anyhoo, if we come to a BBRC ruling, then we'll play it that way.

[Darkson]

As said above, if you get a push against t Stand Firm player, you have to throw the 2nd block.
Frenzy says a push result - nowhere does it say the model actually has to be moved.

[Glowworm]

It says in "Frenzy" ....If a Pushed or defender stumbles result is chosen the player must immediately throw a second block against the same opponent so long as they are both still standing and adjacent...

so no mention of the Blocked player actually having to move, Ive always played it as

1.Frenzied player throws block gets push back (for example)
2. stand firm player declares they are using stand firm (optional)
3. Frenzied player throws second block (as above conditions are met)

Maybe you dont want to use stand firm as moving back may give defencive assists.

[AK_Dave]

Yes, you "must" go for it for the 2nd block of a Frenzy if you have not already used your 2nd Go For It.

The way I read it in LRB5, it isn't that clear.

GFI can only be done on a Blitz action. If you Frenzy on a Blitz action, GFI is possible and Frenzy is clear that this MUST be done. Sprint makes the 3rd GFI optional.

GFI cannot be done on a Block action. If you Frenzy on a Block action, GFI is not possible. Frenzy does not require GFI on a Block action, according to how it is written in LRB5.

Did I miss some nuance?

[Jural]

Yes, you "must" go for it for the 2nd block of a Frenzy if you have not already used your 2nd Go For It.

The way I read it in LRB5, it isn't that clear.

Taken out of context, Galak's wording isn't crystal clear. But luckily, the LRB is clear on this point:

Frenzy (General)
A player with this skill is a slavering psychopath who attacks his
opponents in an uncontrollable rage. Unless otherwise overridden, this
skill must always be used. When making a block, a player with this skill
must always follow up if they can. If a 'Pushed' or 'Defender Stumbles'
result was chosen, the player must immediately throw a second block
against the same opponent so long as they are both still standing and
adjacent. If possible the player must also follow up this second block. If
the frenzied player is performing a Blitz Action then he must pay a
square of Movement and must make the second block unless he has no
further normal movement and cannot go for it again.

For me, the Sprint thing is clear, but I can see it being nasty with a rules lawyer... however, I have never had a Sprint + Frenzy player, and don't expect I will in the near future!

[Old Man Draco]

Just to be sure. If the frenzy player has Juggernaut and throws the both down result, it is also treated as a pushback result and frenzy still applies right?

[emeyin]

Just to be sure. If the frenzy player has Juggernaut and throws the both down result, it is also treated as a pushback result and frenzy still applies right?

Yep.

[Mad Jackal]

Actually, he is not forced to use the juggernaut to my knowledge. So he could in fact choose to have the result be both down and thus not have to throw the 2nd block.

Then the ruling is the same as using Sprint and the 3rd gfi.