New Shadowing/Tentacles

emeyin · Post by **emeyin** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:44 am

Since it's only the moving player that gets to roll now he can still use Team RR and/or Pro but the Shadower/Tentacle player can't because the new rule eliminated his roll.

Does this make the new skill weaker now that the Shadower/Tentacle player can't use Pro if he loses the roll? Or do both players lose the chance use a RR/Pro? Or am I just missing something?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:30 am

If you feel the skill is weaker significantly by not mixing with Pro ... then yes ... the 2 skils were weakened.

The player who is trying to avoid the Tentacles or Shadowing player can still use RR or Pro to get away.

Galak

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:31 am

there is nothing in the rules preventing you rerolling either through pro or a team reroll

odds are the same and its a lot clearer now

emeyin · Post by **emeyin** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:55 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:If you feel the skill is weaker significantly by not mixing with Pro ... then yes ... the 2 skils were weakened.

The player who is trying to avoid the Tentacles or Shadowing player can still use RR or Pro to get away.

Galak

I wouldn't say it's significantly weaker, I am just confused as I thought these skills were underused already. I realize it's alot clearer now with on less roll involved but it just sucks that these underused skills were made slightly weaker in the process. It also makes the choice between Shadowing and Diving Tackle easier.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:22 am

shadowing I take in combination with diving tackle on certain players

tentacles wasnt taken much before due to only a couple of teams having access to it and it also requiring a doubles roll

now that it doesn't for the chaos teams there is more chance people will take it, before there were alternative skills you would rather have on a doubles roll

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:58 am

emeyin wrote:it just sucks that these underused skills were made slightly weaker in the process.

Problem is they were too unclear as previously written.

Hey ... it was only a 4 years ago that Shadowing and Diving Tackle had 3 votes out of 7 in the BBRC to be deleted from the game (with JJ as one of the votes). So we could have always just gone that route.

I understand they are weaker .... but it was needed to make the skill clear. I have very very rarely seen Pro and Shadowing or Tentacles mixed. I'm sure some have ... but I've almost never seen it.

Galak

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:11 am

Actually I think it is Pro rather than these skills that got slightly weaker, but as Galak said how many teams actually have a player with Pro and Shadowing/Tentacles?

Pro is usually a second Doubles choice for Nurgle Beasts & Chaos Minotours who are about the only players who have Tentacles. Skills like Diving Tackle, Tackle & Jump Up will generally be more use on a Shadowing player than Pro.

Pro is the sort of skill I give to players who live long enough to become Super Stars or Legends.

I would rather have these changes to make the skills quicker to resolve than having them removed from the game!

Pug · Post by **Pug** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:06 am

Come to mention it, you don't see too much Pro. Since this topic is about Shadowing and Tenticles the point is moot!

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:47 am

Grumbledook wrote:there is nothing in the rules preventing you rerolling either through pro or a team reroll

odds are the same and its a lot clearer now

As the player with shadowing or tentacles you can't reroll at all.

You can't use a TRR because its not your turn, and you can't use pro since its your opponent who is rolling the dice.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:55 am

I don't know if you are clearing it up or trying to correct me ;]

hoomin_erra · Post by **hoomin_erra** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:15 pm

Grumbledook wrote:I don't know if you are clearing it up or trying to correct me ;]

I'd go for the former, as we have all realised just how big a mistake you are, and no amout of correcting will ever help.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 am

Grumbledook wrote:I don't know if you are clearing it up or trying to correct me ;]

Nor do I. What's my name again?

So the argument might be that in a league where you are worried about tentacles/shadowing then pro is a good choice for your mobile players now when it wasn't before because the rules weren't clear. So this would be a minor boost for pro?

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:33 pm

Well, I have taken Pro on a Beast of Nurgle (at the Greenstone Cup in Auckland in September 2008). It was exceedingly effective. In a league I would also take Pro on a first doubles roll for a Beast of Nurgle.

I am disappointed at the proposed backdoor change to Pro by changes to the Tentacles and Shadowing rules. Pro + Tentacles and Pro + Shadowing are natural skill combinations to me, especially in a world of significantly increased player specialisation under 5th Ed.

Accordingly, I would ask that these proposed changes be withdrawn.

Hope this helps.

Smeborg

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:35 pm

I wuld suggest that Pro causes rules disputes only because the Pro rule is badly written.

I will suggest a re-write when I have time.

Hope this helps

Smeborg