Diving Catch & Kick Off Return?

[Marlow]

Salutations Readers,

Has anyone tried skilling up players with Diving Catch & Kick Off Return to aid ball retrieval?

Having two players with both these skills allows you to cover nine squares (including the endzone) across the board and have a player able to try and catch the ball.

Works well for Slann, but is it worth doing on other teams? Or will it just leave them too weak on defence...

[bouf]

It's a Great combo for a thrower, I've done it and swear by it!

But it depends on the type of team... Agility access doesn't come cheap. Is you development strategy willing to cough up a doubles to give you a DC thrower?

One mate of mine would use a KoR Gutter runner, and he'd hand off to the Extra Arms Thrower. Then the thrower has his full 7MA to hide in the endzone, Fake left/right, or run into a pocket...

Adding DC to that would only make it more reliable

[Grumbledook]

hmm perhaps diving catch could be kinda useful on a dark elf runner as well

[AK_Dave]

Diving Catch and Nerves of Steel. Guaranteed to PISS YOUR OPPONENTS OFF.

[sirsebstar]

Salutations Readers,

.....
Having two players with both these skills allows you to cover nine squares (including the endzone) across the board and have a player able to try and catch the ball.

...

FYI
KOR lets you move 3 squares. DC gives you a further square to try and catch the ball. giving the player a cover of 8 squares. Adding the starting square, thats a whooping 9 squares indeed. But you will need only 1 player.

With 2 players you can cover more, but you would need 4 players to cover each corner. Basicly, having one player will get you the ball, or very close to it. Its that powerfull that I would consider never taking kick again, if I would face teams with this combo. (duh, never even thought about this one. Nice combo)

[GalakStarscraper]

With 2 players you can cover more, but you would need 4 players to cover each corner.

But you only need 2 players with the combo to cover the entire BACK 9 rows of the fields. Your other 9 players will have the front 4 covered.

Galak

[Marlow]

But you only need 2 players with the combo to cover the entire BACK 9 rows of the fields. Your other 9 players will have the front 4 covered.

Thank you Galak, that was what I was meaning.

Its that powerfull that I would consider never taking kick again, if I would face teams with this combo. (duh, never even thought about this one. Nice combo)

Well Orcs, Chaos and other Bashy teams will struggle to get the combo as they need doubles so Kick still has its use.

[Andromidius]

Not to mention Dodge is the double of choice in bashy teams.

~Andromidius

[mattgslater]

See, I can't envision myself burning two skills on offense. I might see myself doing it with Slann or Pro Elves, as those teams have players with GA access who might consider Diving Catch, or who have Diving Catch already and only need one skill for the combo. Otherwise, getting and securing the ball on offense automatically only saves one action, and only on offense, so a two-skill combo is serious overkill.

[AK_Dave]

I would so do this on a DE team with a secondary Runner.

My primary Runner already is:
Dump Off, Dodge, Nerves of Steel, Pass

My secondary Runner would love to be:
Dump Off, Dodge, Catch, Pass Block, Nerves of Steel, Diving Catch

[mattgslater]

See... you ran out the entire skill prog for both Runners, and while you did put Diving Catch somewhere in there (76SPP for #2), you didn't put KoR in, 'cause you're not silly enough to build a combo with strictly receiving-turn application. Even then, I don't get why you'd take DC on that guy.

[SillySod]

Its a great combo.... just not one which does anything especially useful.

If you are having problems securing the ball then you are overstacking the front line, put more players covering the widezones and move players such that they cover the ball if it is dropped. This just gets worse when you realise that the combination still isnt a surefire pickup and when it fails you probably havent covered yourself. Yes you can get a slight advantage from an extra 4+ catch but it is a shockingly poor return for 4 skills.

Its that powerfull that I would consider never taking kick again, if I would face teams with this combo. (duh, never even thought about this one. Nice combo)

I would certainly take kick for all sorts of reasons. Firstly I would feel confident of beating anyone who took this combo, so kick not working on them wouldnt be an issue. Secondly this combo does not nullify kick, kick is often used to determine the pace of an opponents drive.. kick it short to put pressure on them early or kick it long if they need to score in 2/3 turns. Having the ball caught in the backfield will still be undesirable for a team which wants to score in two or three turns.

Edit: potentially this could work well for a human team that bases their strategy around catchers (with the new diving catch). However, I'm not sure that this would be stronger than just having a thrower.

[mattgslater]

The new DC... I've seen so many floated about. Is this the one that allows bouncing balls to be DC'ed so long as there has not yet been a Catch attempt? I liked that one.

In any case, for most teams that can consider DC, it's a skill that really recommends itself to the wide receiver position, on/near the line in/near the WZ. DC tends to be taken by faster teams at high progression levels, who usually find themselves in the finesse position (similar to the Magic concept of "Beatdown" as opposed to "Control," which in BB translates bash). This speaks to shallow kicks except on turn 7-8, when you need to race the fast guys (frequently the DC guys) at the wall anyway, so you want a shallow setup no matter what you're doing (either you have to run to the nines, or you want to make the oppo kick deep, where he can't rush the ball-carrier). So the DC Catcher is a bad target for KOR except on Slann teams (Stunties too, but they have problems getting G skills or keeping players alive long enough to roll multiple doubles, so KOR tends not to be a priority).

As a late selection on an elf thrower maybe. Let's see...

Pro/High Elf Thrower #1: Sure Hands, Accurate, Dodge, KoR, Diving Catch? Ok, maybe. But this guy will see the field only once per match, plus once per TD you give up with time on the clock, plus whenever you drop below 11 guys. Once your team gets its legs, and you have 14 players plus an Apo, you're only really fielding the model when losing, plus 2 turns per drive, plus maybe a few turns near the end of the match. No way such a player is hitting 75 points in 25 games without mad MVP luck (or really bad defense, which is totally unforgivable on Pro Elves, but could be understood on High Elves).

Ditto the Human Thrower who gets an Agility increase before two doubles. But in that case, if one of the doubles comes up before the Agility increase, then Strong Arm factors into the mix (I guess it's two skills, then an AG increase or double, then a double, then another double... good luck). Remember, if you get the double before the second normal roll, then even with Strong Arm and Dodge, you're going to be scratching your head about Catch. And if you get Dodge before KOR, you'll probably never get KOR, so you'll never get DC. So that would be a tough needle to thread.

[GalakStarscraper]

The new DC... I've seen so many floated about. Is this the one that allows bouncing balls to be DC'ed so long as there has not yet been a Catch attempt? I liked that one.

Not that one.

The new DC add +1 to the Catch roll if an accurate pass is made to the square this player is standing in.

Galak

[SillySod]

Why does it need to be an accurate pass? Is it not just "in a player attempts to catch the ball that they were already in them they get an additional +1 modifier to the roll"... if not, why not?