Wood Elf Catcher - 5th skill

[Mad Jackal]

With the changes to the wood elf catcher I would give serious consideration to sure feet.

Diving tackle (and marking men with my catchers) has always been asking them to get killed.

I put that skill on the young ones who develop if they live, not ones who already have developed and wish to continue fufilling thier roles. (Granted this may be a neat way to help trim your roster via allowing older catchers to die) , But I never seem to need to have players die by my help. The team is always rebuying some-one if we can afford it.

[mattgslater]

DT is better on a cheap player, I agree: Shadowing is much safer on this guy as he advances, because it won't make him a foul target and you never have to sweat oppo re-rolls on 2+ dodges: you just Shadow until he beats you or falls and/or burns a RR. I've been thinking about sticking DT on a Catcher who already has Wrestle, Side Step and Shadowing, but I've never done it, largely because the three-skill combo usually cuts it anyway, and is a lot safer, but also because getting a safety to 51 on an all-MA7+ team is not exactly a quick process. (Besides, that guy screams "Give me Pass Block!")

[Jural]

Even against AG 4 opponents with Dodge, the odds of your catcher ending up prone without causing a turnover is very low, only 1/6 of the time.

By contrast, the opposing player gets a turnover 1/4 of the time! The remaining 21/36 times the player gets away and you remain standing.

To me that's worth it, especially as it totally shuts down AG 3 dodgers (1/9 of the time prone with no turnover, 4/9 turnover.)

Factor in how many times you will not be fouled, or you will be blocked or blitzed off and I think it's very low risk. That's why Diving Tackle Side Step is so great, you can't be blitzed off and you can sometimes force players to dodge in ridiculous directions to get away from you.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, but if DT works, the DT guy has to go early to be sure he keeps his feet (which sucks if you were going to pick up with him), and after standing he's only MA6 for the turn, so if you need to step two squares to get the ball, you're not going much farther. It's much easier if your guy is standing, so as to keep exerting his zone if he doesn't get to go (allowing you more flexibility with your sequence) and increasing the distance he can move after the pick-up.

[TuernRedvenom]

I've been thinking about sticking DT on a Catcher who already has Wrestle, Side Step and Shadowing, but I've never done it, largely because the three-skill combo usually cuts it anyway, and is a lot safer, but also because getting a safety to 51 on an all-MA7+ team is not exactly a quick process. (Besides, that guy screams "Give me Pass Block!")

Don't give Wrestle to players taking Shadowing or Diving Tackle: you want to be standing next to your target so block is a lot better!

Still like DT over Shadowing, like Jural says you'll rarely get fouled (never had it happen) and often you don't want the opponent to move even 1 square. A 1-square move could be enough to hand off to a free player, or move in the gap between 2 guarders or blitz your ball carrier or...

[Pug]

Personally I would pick Strip Ball. Useful to get the ball into the open if the opposition make a break into your own half. gives you time to get players into a counter move.
Second option would be shadowing. Its soooo annoying!!!

[sirsebstar]

shadowing on an MA8 player? not my kind of tea

[mattgslater]

Don't give Wrestle to players taking Shadowing or Diving Tackle: you want to be standing next to your target so block is a lot better!

Still like DT over Shadowing, like Jural says you'll rarely get fouled (never had it happen) and often you don't want the opponent to move even 1 square. A 1-square move could be enough to hand off to a free player, or move in the gap between 2 guarders or blitz your ball carrier or...

I see your point about Wrestle. I'm used to playing shorter seasons, so my Catchers often have to play double-duty. Likewise, I don't like fielding more than two Catchers at once, as ST2 is a big liability when you apply it to four guys and the linos are fast enough to play linebacker and still get some action in the TD rotation. A ST2 Catcher with Block isn't much of a safety, but a Wrackler in the backfield is very effective even if he isn't very strong.

As for Shadowing over DT, I think it might be that I just like to make the best of "B" skills. But it doesn't matter, really: the strength of both is that people game around them, and they game around them in about the same way.

[Andromidius]

I guess you could take Sure Hands. Would make him a great ball retriever, and be an offensive asset even while kicking.

Wardancers leap over the enemy and mug the ball carrier before it's safely caged. Catcher runs in, grabs the ball, stands on the touchline, scores next turn. And if your opponant tries to blitz the ball back, chances are he'll just push you over the line and you score in his turn!

~Andromidius

[FischerKing]

For woodelves, turnovers on the other team is really something to build your players for, and it can be a gamewinner. Diving Tackle just seem to do that better than other skills, and if its a turnover for the other team, he will not get fouled anyway. Its also very usefull on a fast player, because he can possition himself much better and make full use of his skill. You dont have to put him in tacklezones all game long, but when you get the chance and the possition is good.

Especially in dodgy games, with other elven or skaven teams, a couple of diving tacklers on your team can make the differense. Often I even get Diving Tackle for my wardancers who gets to 76 spp's, and I never regretted that.

[wesleytj]

Nobody has said Leap yet? I'll throw my hat in the ring for Leap. It's not JUST a Wardancer skill - Catchers with it become VERY annoying, both on offense and defense.