Some thoughts on Norse needed...

[Axtklinge]

Hi!
I've been playing with the idea of using a Norse team in our next local league, for several weeks now.
I've got minis for all the players, and I've probably read most of the Norse related topics in TBB, but havent decided on the final (I mean "starting") lineup.
Still thats not realy what I wanted feedback about...

My main doubt on choosing the positionals for the team is related with the role that Runners and Berserkers should have.
Compared to the experience I have playing a lot of other teams, I feel a bit puzzled with the "Dauntless" in the runner, and the "Jump Up" in the berserker.
At a glance I would think it would be more logical the other way around (helping the runner to get more movement, and the berserker to hunt down bigger prey with dauntless), but as I dont have experience with them I'm probably missing something!

I know Norse are at their best doing the "bashing&running" game, so I can imagine their theoretical aproach to the game to be like: 1-pick up the ball; 2- make a box to protect the carrier; 3- bash your way downfield 'till you TD.
To add some lateral thoughts on their game would be to make the most out of all the "Block's" the linemen and most other players have; avoid the passing game (at least in the early games of the team); take advantage of the "Frenzyed" players to get adversary's out of the field (and be careful with the Ulfs without Block of course).

With this in mind, I still feel that Dauntless will be tempting me to use "runners" (guys that perhaps should be ready to catch hand-offs) into the bashing...

Any experience or thoughts on these particular positionals?
Any other tactical thughts?

Cheers
Axt

[voyagers_uk]

My advice should bear a caveat that I have not played a game for 12 months.

My Norse team started without Ulf's but maxed on all other positions.

I used the Snow Troll as a pivot and blitzed/blocked with him every turn
the runners and beserkers are your flexible linebacker/fullbacks and as such I used the nearest best fit to fight the battle it needed to fight. Dauntless was superb to take out Black Orcs or Mummies.

Leader on a thrower was the first skill choice. Rerolls are premium goods in this team until a measure of safety was found with the more aggressive players.

block on the linemen is amazing.

Merc's as inducements are superb. Ulf + Block being my first choice.

[Gesmachiene]

To get great usage out of the Jump Up skill, I gave my berserkers Piling On as a first skill (Mighty Blow second). Combined with Jump Up you can easily get them where you need them the next turn. You can even try to get that JumpUp-block.

I've used the runners mostly to get the TD's. Push the cage up their half, then hand-off and break out with a runner for the TD (protecting him with other players offcourse).
The Dauntless-skill is very usefull when fighting those stronger bashy teams like chaos and orcs. Still, even then I could only make the occasional block on one of their higher strenght players.

The benefit I got out of the block linemen, is gone after 12+ matches. Most opponents I play, take block as first skill (most opponents play bashy teams...)

Hope this gives you an idea...

[Andromidius]

I had some success with simple brawling and legging it for a touchdown.

Basically, man mark as much of the enemy team as possible (your Linemen are good enough to take most opponants one vs one), have your Runners belt it downfield after recieving a handoff or quick pass from the Thrower, and just keep running while using the second runner (and anyone else who's able to sort of keep up) to cover the ball carrier.

It's a very rough tactic, but it's good for quick plays. And with AV7, you don't want the enemy able to bash you around too much and the more chances to get back your knocked out players the better. Plus aggressive seems to suit Norse, even if it doesn't always work properly.

Skills for me would be:

Berzerkers - Guard, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Sidestep
Ulfwereners - Block, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Juggernaut (ignore doubles)
Runners - Dodge, Fend, Sidestep, Mighty Blow
Throwers - Sure Hands, Leader/Kick-Off Return, Tackle, Strong Arm
Linemen - Tackle, Dauntless, Guard/Diving Tackle
Ice Troll - Mighty Blow, Guard, Break Tackle, Block

Stat increases:

Berzerkers - ST, AV
Ulfwereners - ST, AV
Runners - MV, ST, AG
Throwers - MV, AG
Linemen - ST
Ice Troll - ST

~Andromidius

[Axtklinge]

Thank you all for your input!

I've never tried the "Piling On" aproach on any of my teams, and that might actually be something new to play with...

We play a perpetual league (the team rosters go from one league to the next), so while I'll probably be getting a lot of inducements in most of the games, I know that the "Lineman with block" advantage will be null for most opponents as their players will have that too to say the least.

AV 7 wont help either so I'm counting on Frenzy to give a hand every now and then.

(...) The benefit I got out of the block linemen, is gone after 12+ matches. Most opponents I play, take block as first skill (most opponents play bashy teams...)

I've seen that happening with a Amazon team (with all the blodgers they get quite quickly), but after a handfull of games that "edge" started to fade away for a bit.


One other interesting subject is the setup (both defensive and offensive).
Since lineman are blockers from the start, I'm tempted to leave the first "fighting" line (LoS and sides) without positionals (exception made to the Troll).
That way, both Runners and Berzerkers can hit in cirurgical places rather then being hold in place by TZ's.
How do you deploy your guys?

Sure Hands or Leader as the trower first skill?

Cheers
Axt

[sann0638]

cirurgical

Good word!

Sure Hands or Leader as the trower first skill?

Some sensible people have suggested that Sure Hands is better on a runner, as you want them to have the ball in order to run with it, so Leader.

On the other hand, an alternative is to have catch on a runner and sure hands on a thrower, so the thrower picks up the ball and quick passes it to a runner for some SPPs. Haven't tried that out though.

[mattgslater]

Berserkers make good cornerbacks. They have Frenzy, so they're dangerous in the wide zone, and their Jump Up makes them better-than-average at soaking up hits (well, given what you have to work with...). They aren't cheap, but they don't have a statline advantage, so they are kind of expendable as long as they're being used right. The corner position is good for them because it makes them hard to foul, which is key with expensive AV7 Jump Up players. I think it's best to build one as a safety, with Mighty Blow (first) and Piling On (second), but if you get doubles you have a great cornerback option with Dodge; get Stand Firm next, and you can shut down the other side more-than-adequately with Guard and Fend linos. On your Dodge/SF guy, protect him with a Runner at OLB, so you have an MA7 guy at the linebacker position ready to attempt a defensive two-turner (this is an important skill for Norse: you can afford to pick fights as long as you can win them, but if you start losing the bash-contest you have to turn the game over quickly or that squishy AV7 becomes a big threat to your team development).

Ulfs are particularly dangerous at the inside linebacker position, especially when they have Block. If you've got a lino or Runner backing the Ulf, it can be a real drag to break through... this gives many elf teams fits. Against bash, you can use them as middle LBs, protected from blitzes by linemen, to discourage follows and make Frenzy harder. Stand Firm is another great Ulf skill for either use (Side Step on doubles, as +ST/Grab is generally limited to big guys and highly-developed teams, and if your oppo blitzes with a big guy, it's yet another die roll, so all's good with that).

[PubBowler]

Sure Hands or Leader as the trower first skill?

Some sensible people have suggested that Sure Hands is better on a run.

Not sure I count as that but I would certainly suggest it for tounrie play.
As for a league, Runners get agility skills (Side Step & Diving Tackle) so a lino can have Sure Hands. Use it when short of reroills or agianst Strip Ball opponents. Otherwise it's whoever needs the SPPs as all players have similar MA.

My thoughts on the thread are:

Just linos on the LOS when kicking. Fend is good on these guys.

Blitzers get MB and Piling On. They'll die but it'll be fun while they last and easy to build more.

Ulfs get Wrestle as someone ought to have it and they are the only ones without Block. Also makes Tackle less required as Blodgers are well covered by these guys.

[Axtklinge]

Early this week I had a one-off game to tryout the team.
The game was against 1.6k Orc (4 BOB, 4Blitzers, Troll, ... with a couple of guards and Block on the BOBs).

I started with 1 Troll, 1 Ulf, both runners, both blitzers, 1 trower and 4 lineman, plus 2 re-rolls.
As inducements I got 1 Ulf with block, one limenan, and a couple of re-rolls (and a bbabe i guess).

I won 2-0, but had a bit of luck (never failed nothing serious such as pick-ups or else, and my re-rolls worked most of the times).

As general impressions:
- As expected, 7 AV will fail, and its a must to have a couple of lineman in reserves ASAP;
- Having Frenzy in 5 players on the pitch makes the oponent game in the widezones almost impossible;
- LOS palyers with Stand-Firm (Guard too) can make a stone wall in the center, and force oponent to go to the wide zones (and we know what happens in the widezones with Frenzy...);
- Dauntless in an incredible "cage breaker" vs Trolls/Black Orcs/ST4+ players, but it will draw attention to those players after a couple of sucessful hit's...


Cheers
Axt

[stormmaster1]

I've not played much LRB 5 with norse, but in LRB 4 i remember block being great in the early stages for linemen. To get a really good team you need guard linemen, but very few other skilled linos. A few tackle, a kicker and maybe now a wrestle/tackle lino.

down the line every player should be considered expendable as they are all fragile. Don't be too risky with your top players but don't worry about them getting killed. Because it will happen anyway. The basic skills (except for the Ulf) will keep the team up and running when the going gets tough, mainly due to block. This means that there are no real liabilities on the team even with rookie linemen, and really helps with rebuilding.

[Axtklinge]

Just got my first "oficial" game for the Norse.
I had lots of inducements that allowed me to get an second Ulf (with block), a couple of Apothecaries, one extra lineman, and 3 rerolls.
The dice were on my side 90% of the game, and that ended up in a 2-0 victory for me (2-1 on cassualtys for me too).

Its amasing how prone to "accidents" Ulfs without block are.
I must have failed 70 or 80% of the blocks I've tryied with the Ulf from the team (not the one with inducments).
I've scored twice with a runner (and it got dodge), and did a pass with the trower that with MVP ended up getting a skill too (sure hands).

Frenzy has a lot of potencial to open gaps, but the low armour gives me chills everytime someone attempts to block an expensive Ulf, or eve the Snow Troll...
Lets see how it goes!

Like in this game, I'll be having lots of inducements most of the league games (its a perpetual league and teams are a bit advanced).
As I dont want to "give away" SPP points to starplayers, I intend to use inducments to get players to help knocking out oposition, to allow me to score with the "team players", if you know what i mean.
With this thought in mind, I wonder if you guys think it could be worth to use "Boomer Eziasson", to give a hand "opening the box" vs basher teams like orcs, or similar (after all its fairly cheap...)?

[Gesmachiene]

Up 'till now, i've always induced Helmut Wulf (chainsaw) with the team. But since he got more expensive, Boomer might be the one I take next time ...

Congrats on the win!

[PubBowler]

Both Chainsaw and Bomber are worth their costs.
But normally against different opponents.

Bomber against slow strong caging sides (Khemri being the best target).

Chainsaw against skilled but lightly armoured (Amazons, Norse etc).
Use him mainly for fouling & blocking, his 1/6 TO is too high a risk for your blitz.
But keep in mind that assists don't bother him so a caging ball carrier blitz might be a risk worth making.

Also remember apoths & babes, you're pretty fragile.

[Axtklinge]

Also remember apoths & babes, you're pretty fragile.

Yes, I forgot, I bought an Apo with the money I got from the game (and 20k I had saved from the start).
I intend to keep buying at least another one with the inducements to try to keep my Troll, Ulfs and Runners safe. As for the others we'll see, depending on the injury, turn of the game, or mood...

On the other subject, there are a some very skilled star players I could probably get my hands on (at least in the first few game while the TR is fairly low) but, if they score the SPP's wont go to the players of the team, so I will avoid them whenever possible.

I've used the chainsaw guy a few times, but never had that much luck with it. Yet, I must confess I've never though of using him the way you're sugesting PubBowler (vs low armour teams).
That may in fact be a reason on why he had poor results on my hands...
(Note to self: Give some taste of their own medicine the next time I play against Goblins...)

As for the bomber, I havent used it yet.
It ocurred to me it could be a great way to blow "cages" (besides orcs theres a brutal Vampire team with 1 ST6 vamp, and 2 ST5, wich makes very very hard to defend against them).
I know I musnt throw the bomb to players (unless they have very low AG), so I'll be aiming to "empty squares" next to them.
Other then that "Eziasson" seems quite tough (after all a dwarf is always a dwarf), so I'm sure he should be fine even if he's cought up in some brawl.
Still, I'm a bit suspicious of "Eziasson's" AG2...
Is there any other usefull tip on it's use?

[PubBowler]

I know I musnt throw the bomb to players (unless they have very low AG), so I'll be aiming to "empty squares" next to them.
Other then that "Eziasson" seems quite tough (after all a dwarf is always a dwarf), so I'm sure he should be fine even if he's cought up in some brawl.
Still, I'm a bit suspicious of "Eziasson's" AG2...
Is there any other usefull tip on it's use?

He isn't that likely to be accurate so bear that in mind when you're letting loose.
Other options include using him instead of a foul.

And yes, with Block and decent armour he can be useful in a ruck.