How does this combo work? DT+Shadowing

[grotuk]

Hi guys:

We have a debate in the spanish forum about the Diving Tackle plus Shadowing combo and we will like to have an official clarification.

We've two options in here.

First is you can use them in the order you prefer. I mean, you can try to shadow the opponent first, and if you fail, then you can use DT to knock him down.

The other one, and i support , is that first goes DT and then Shadowing. If DT can help you, you can use it and if not, the only option is trying to shadow.

The different arguments came because some argue both skills are triggered when the opponent tries to dodge out, and I support the fact that shadowing is ONLY triggered when the opponents dodge successfully.

For us, as non english natives the rulebook is not really clear on this point, so any clarification will help

[Azoth]

some help:

LRB 5 p. 23:

You can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the
dice (e.g. Diving Tackle does not need to be used until after seeing
the result of the Dodge roll).

Further: Shadowing forces you to be standing, once you want to use it...

Both skills can be chosen off, but once you've made your choice towards Diving Tackle, the other won't be available anymore:

Either go: I chose to use Diving Tackle, which makes me being placed prone in the field left -> no shadowing possible anymore
Or: I chose to use shadowing which might work, so I follow or if not, I might decide to use diving tackle to make him fall down (and therebya being placed prone in the left field).

[Grumbledook]

I've always considered it as you do

if diving tackle forces the dodge to fail, then use that

if it doesn't, then attempt shadowing

if you also have tentacles, then use that first ;]

(of course its annoying if they have dodge/reroll and you used DT and the reroll succeed, though the -2 still applied to the reroll)

[GalakStarscraper]

For the non-English speakers ... I bolded the key words that explain exactly how this works:

Shadowing: The player may use this skill when a player performing an Action on the opposing team moves out of any of his tackle zones for any reason.

Diving Tackle: The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to dodge out of any of his tackle zones.

Page 8: In order to leave a square that is in one or more opposing tackle zones, a player must dodge out of the square.

The attempt to dodge happens first. You don't actually move into the square you are dodging to until after the Dodge roll.

So order of operations is this:
1) Dodge roll is made to attempt to dodge
2) Diving Tackle can now be used on this roll
3) If Dodge roll is successful than he moves out of the tackle zone
4) At this point the trigger for Shadowing occurs and the player if still standing can use Shadowing.

Galak

[Grumbledook]

good that is how i thought

[grotuk]

Thanks Tom for the clear answer with all the references. Really helpful.

[Buggrit]

So if the player with shadowing was standing next to a player who was blocking, pushed and followed up taking him out of the shadower's TZ then you could shadow him on the block because he's moved out of your TZ?

[PubBowler]

So if the player with shadowing was standing next to a player who was blocking, pushed and followed up taking him out of the shadower's TZ then you could shadow him on the block because he's moved out of your TZ?

Not how I remember it, Move actions only but don't have the book here to check...

[Cramy]

So if the player with shadowing was standing next to a player who was blocking, pushed and followed up taking him out of the shadower's TZ then you could shadow him on the block because he's moved out of your TZ?

Not how I remember it, Move actions only but don't have the book here to check...

From the shadowing skill description:

The player may use this skill when a player performing an Action on the opposing team moves out of any of his tackle zones for any reason.

So yes, if an opponent in your TZ throws a block and follows-up, you can shadow him.

[GalakStarscraper]

So yes, if an opponent in your TZ throws a block and follows-up, you can shadow him.

Correct.

Galak

[Buggrit]

Sweet makes it so much more worth having... also means you could potentially have a chain shadow going on... like a conga line

[DoubleSkulls]

Sweet makes it so much more worth having... also means you could potentially have a chain shadow going on... like a conga line

Nope, you can only shadow the active player (i.e. one performing an action). That's to stop silliness like shadowing a player you've just pushed back!

[mattgslater]

So now you can shadow a Frenzy guy to assist the next block or keep him from blitzing his way into freedom. Hmmm... That would make it a good late skill on an outside LB when the corners have Side Step.

[Buggrit]

Nope, you can only shadow the active player (i.e. one performing an action). That's to stop silliness like shadowing a player you've just pushed back!

So you couldn't have this happen....

X Z X
X A X
X Y X
X X C

Z&Y for team 1 A&C for team 2

A Blocks Z, Y Shadows A. (Y is now moving out of C's tackle zone, C also has shadowing.. could it be used?)

[Grumbledook]

y isn't the active player so no c can't shadow