A couple of skills for a well developed Woody team.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:42 pm

Hi, my woody thrower and kicker have just rolled a normal skill and an AG + (in that order) on this team:

http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/teamView.php?teamid=529

(I don't know how to change the colours, but if you highlight everything you can see the team...)

The thrower isn't likely to get anymore skills seeing she has just gotten to 76 SPPs, she has accurate, safe throw, +AG, dodge but is also -ST. What would people advise. I'm torn between block and sure hands. Block for protection and sure hands for the reroll. Is there anything i've missed?

The kicker also has wrestle. Is the AG+ worth it? Would he get enough use from it to make it worthwhile (I also have an AG5 wardancer). I was thinking more of getting diving tackle as he will be playing on defence and it should help. What do yous reckon?

Also, I've just saved up 90k. Should I buy the last catcher, or try to keep it in the bank should a wardancer die. I'm at -4 S.E. so it is likely that most games I'll lose money, so it is unlikely I'll have 90k for long...

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:53 pm

Personally I fire players with -ST, but since you seem to be keeping him I would ignore Block and concentrate on the ball handling.

Eiter Sure Hands if he pick up the ball a lot, or Catch if you throw the ball to him with other players. The other option is Pro for the potential reroll on catch/pick up/sure feet. Some people do not like it since it not guaranteed.

Linesman is another difficult choice. +AG and you could start building him into another Wardancer with Leap, Strip Ball for cage breaking, otherwise just give him Tackle.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:56 pm

The the +AG. Its so handy to be able to waltz through defences etc.

The thrower I'd probably look at leader if you don't have it already, otherwise sure hands or block for the reasons you've identified.

Magictobe · Post by **Magictobe** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:57 pm

You can give dodge for protection. And it gives you movability (somethings says that this is written otherwise but do not know) to get the ball.

I would go for dodge.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:06 pm

SH on the Thrower, +AG on the Lino. Then on the +AG/Wrestle/Kick guy give him Leap next.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:57 pm

Thanks, the thrower was already AG5 b4 ST2 so i didn't think it worth sacking her. She doesn't get stuck in, generally only plays on offence (edit) (unless i'm short on numbers) and can do a rerolled safe long bomb on a 3... She already has dodge for a bit of defence and mobility, I don't like Pro, it will fail when you need it!

To be honest I don't think block would do too much, she rarely gets blocked and unless my opo really goes after her, probably won't.

I hadn't thought of leader, given that she will probably only make a pick up a maximum of 3 times a game, I reckon that that extra reroll would come in more handy than sure hands. Even in the rain she picks up on a 2 so it is just a 1 that i need to worry about. My only worry with leader is that she won't be on the pitch when i need the reroll.

An AG5 player is also nice for ball recovery on defence (when he will be mostly playing) so even if it doesn't fit in what I had planned for him, it is probably the best choice.

Getting another catcher?

AK_Dave · Post by **AK_Dave** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:46 pm

SH on the Thrower is nice. The +AG doesn't matter when it comes to picking up the ball: a 1 is a 1 is a 1. You will roll one. You'll use a reroll to fix it. You may fail the reroll. May as well burn a SH reroll as a Team reroll.

You say you use the guy defensively, not offensively, so I'm thinking he takes the field mostly when you're kicking and your opponent has the ball. So I might be thinking of Leap on him. Leap on an AG5 ballretriever, who already has Dodge.

Oh, and get the Catcher. You have the cash now and will likely be bleeding cash in the future, so the idea of saving it up for a Wardancer seems pointless.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:35 am

Sorry, I meant the thrower only really plays on offence!

Mmm, I am torn between sure hands and leader, but given that she is AG5 and therefore still picks up on a 2 in the wet/a TZ, I can take the risk of a one as she "shouldn't" fluff it more than once a game and the leader reroll would come in more handy on average then. If she was still AG4 then picking up on a 3 in the wet would probably make SHs more effective.

So I reckon Leader, AG+ and the catcher. Cheers.

FischerKing · Post by **FischerKing** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:14 am

On the Thrower I would get Sure Hands or Sure Feet. With sure feet its easier to take the extra go for it to pick up the ball, or make a long Bomb a long pass. Another option would be Catch, as you are playing in a developed league with kick and you might hand it off or quick pass it to her more often than you would pick it up with her. Leader is also good, but I would take it on another player, as your Thrower shouldnt play defense. And, dont fire her! she is great for doing what she does.

On the kick lineelf I would take the + ag too, and then dodge. As others have stated its great to have a mobile ag 5 player to pickup the ball on defense in tacklezones, and for that role I believe more in Dodge than leap (if you cant have both ofcourse) as you are likely to be doing alot of dodging during that action, and it also has the nice sideeffect of added protection.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:11 am

If you only field the Thrower on Offense, you might want to consider Kick-Off Return, to minimize the likelihood that your two-turner will fail. I'd do that or Sure Hands: given how little you'll use the guy Leader isn't wise. You want your Leader on the board on defense, as you'll ideally be spending time on defense during both halves (unless you're getting whipped, but then you have to field everybody anyway).

As to which (KOR or SH), the question is: how confident are you?

If you're not so confident, SH may save you RRs for later, and has more utility (say on defense if you're down men). This is definitely the best option if you're down to 12 or fewer men. Likewise consider SH if you are tickled about the idea of using this player as a safety. She's not as fast as a Catcher, but there is no better ball-getter for after you've ruined a cage with the WDs and ST4 Lino. Dodge into a TZ on 35/36, pick up on 35/36, chuck a short pass on 35/36 to catch on 35/36 with a 1/36 interception effort. That's (35/36)^5, or, well, not bad. And it works as well on Turn 8 as it does on Turn 2, or after burning a TRR on a block, meaning you can blitz with 1d (or maybe even 2d against) if you have a TRR and no better alternative, and you can often hold off on this action while you go through your blocking rotation with relative peace-of-mind.

If you are confident in your ability to impose your will on the opposition and fear only Nuffle, then KOR is better Nuffle-insurance. You can duplicate SH with a TRR on the rare occasions when you need it, but there's no substitute for KOR when the ball flies into the back corner, or even if it just falls on the weakside. Moreover, if it falls close, KOR approximates a better version of SH (you get to try the roll before your action so can't turn-over, and you can also use a TRR) with a built-in MA bonus!

KOR is an early necessity on many bash teams, but on elves it's a late luxury for a team that can afford a dedicated offensive Thrower. Like for an AG5 Thrower with 76 SPP and S2, too fragile to start on D, but too good to cut.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:10 pm

Definitely either Kick Off Return or Sure Hands for the Thrower - I'd do Sure Hands. The whole point of wood elves (in my mind) is that you can give them reroll skills for almost everything so that 1's can't kill them easily. You pick up the ball with sure hands reroll, dodge with dodge rerolls, pass with pass rerolls, catch with catch rerolls, etc. The team rerolls, then, are generally reserved for the wardancer to leap and block on blitzes.

Note the "GENERALLY" there...there are always exceptions.

Anyway, point being, I would take Sure Hands. With AG5, Pass, and Accurate, you don't have to really worry about the throw itself; MA7 means you should be able to get to the ball without kick off return, if you place yourself correctly.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:32 pm

Thanks guys, decided against KoR-even if the ball lands right in the corner, I should be able to retrieve it and get it to someone so that a 1 or 2 turner is still on.

And I went for Leader in the end on the basis that a) I didn't have it, b) I wouldn't give it to a lino, or indeed anyone on a double (guard please!) and c) I reckoned on the odd occasions that I will roll a 1 on the pick up, I will be able to use the leader reroll anyway and hopefully, it would be another team reroll.

Tight between sure hands and leader though-I see leader as more of a gamble and I'm a gambling man...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:53 pm

Field her at safety in your base D, opposite Elsbeth. She's better than a rookie Catcher for the 2-turn turnover score, and in context of your Wardancers, also better than Fione.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:53 am

Aliboon wrote: Tight between sure hands and leader though-I see leader as more of a gamble and I'm a gambling man...

And see, I'm more of a "35/36 as frequently as possible" type. To each their own.

FischerKing · Post by **FischerKing** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:18 pm

Mattsglater had a good idea we missed there, with kick-off return. I think it could be very valuable on a woodie thrower though I havent tried it out yet myself. Not so much if the ball goes deep, as thats what you want, but when it goes short and you need to get your thrower out of range, then you save some 2+ rolls and a player for throwing or handing off to your thrower. So I would say that SH or KoR would have been the best choice.