Leader

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:28 am

Arngrim wrote:Freny on the stripballer...
Wouldn't that make me forced to throw one more block at 1/2 dice, or 1/3 dice if I'm really unlucky? I'm worried that it would be a liability as mutch as an advantage.

And is just 1 SBall really enough?

Still on the fence about the double as well.

*pondering*

1. I don't advocate frenzy in this case. Why force yourself to engineer things when you're reacting and responding to your opponents mistakes and miscues.

2. No 1 strip ball is a target. 2 wardancers should be strip ball at a minimum. I usually add a catcher in as well. Some guys I hear add a linemen.

3.The thrower's doubles I would take Strong Arm. Make him pass strong arm sure hands and accurate and on those rare occasions you actually play an offensive drive in BB, you'll be near automatic on any pass to any player. Not to mention all the bonuses to deep kicks on the OTS play. Or the ability to throw for a TD from a tackle zone or two on defense.
For 90 k you can buy a 2nd thrower to put leader on.

thems my 2 cents

Arngrim · Post by **Arngrim** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:39 pm

I like SBall on both dancers because of the reasons you give.
Also, if I blitz a cage, manage to strip the ball only to get a turnover and a wd on his face in the middle of a cage because of Frenzy, I'm not happy at the start of my opponents turn.

Matt, I wonder how you usually engineer the cagebusting to avoid these instances, basically: why do you like frenzy on a SBaller?'

Leader, Guard or SArm... I'm leaning away from Leader now, because as Mad J wrote: I can always buy a new thrower(later+leader skill) for 90(+20KTV)K

I've been rolling the Guard around in my head though.. I need one, since I don't have any guarders at all ATM, but going with a dedicated offensive QB is also a juicy perspective.

Mad Jackal · Post by **Mad Jackal** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:58 pm

Cage busting with frenzy requires counter assists. Otherwise known as placing more players in harms way if the play goes pear shaped. I'll take a frenzy line elf for sideline control, and the occasional chain push fun. (Sometimes I go block dauntless frenzy and make my own trollslayer+)

Guard in my opinion goes on line-elves. If you put guard on him (your thrower), and he's holding the ball it's useless. If he gives up the ball to use guard, then why be a thrower?

Guard is for scrums and players in TZ. Neither of which you want to place you thrower in voluntarily. And if he ends up in one after your opponents turn, you've not positioned him well in the first place. (Thinking back how strong arm even lets you hold him back further yet..)

The thrower is a more expensive line elf for the passing chart access. [obviously] If you don't want a passer or pass action skills, then why buy the thrower? Guard on a thrower sets him down a blocking path that is totally wasted in my opinion. Elfs don't scrum and fight anyway. They speed and agile away.

Leader would be better than guard in my opinion. At least it would not be a 30k skill with 10k use.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:34 pm

Guard isnt a bad skill for a thrower although it is less useful on a woodie thrower. Remember that you wont be playing the whole game in offence and even when you are playing offence the thrower might not have the ball (or might be in a cage, where a central guard is handy).

Is it worth 30k... who knows? Strong Arm probably isnt worth 30k but people still take it.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:56 am

Guard on a Thrower is to put him at OLB and ensure that he becomes Will, just because opponents will set up away from the Guarder when given the choice. That's all. Offensively it has a bit of value, but the real value is to make sure the oppo drives in the other direction when you're on D, to help make it easier to scoop the ball up should you knock it free. Frankly, I think it's only worthwhile on the Woodie Thrower, as it's MA7 that gives the guy his linebacker potential in the first place.

As for Frenzy/SB, I'm mostly talking out my backside. I play in leagues where everybody's so irrationally paranoid of SB that it becomes worthless two or three matches into the season, so I stopped bothering with it, taking Frenzy alone instead. But Frenzy/SB does let you get the oppo's TZ off the ball, at least if you get in before the cage forms (which must be your intention; if you have to actually bust a cage, your oppo got lucky or you did something wrong).

Arngrim · Post by **Arngrim** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:30 am

Ok, I'm leaning further and further towards SArm, SS, SB.
I just wish I had rolled that double on the Lineelf instead

Out of curiosity, Matt, How come you recommended SS on the new WD and Frenzy on the SB one, following your line of reasoning I'd have put Frenzy on the new guy and SS on the SB one.

But I feel that I need to threaten to knock the ball loose as much as possible, since that's my preferred style of defense.

Also, forcing the opposition to carry the ball with 1 or 2 players makes it easier to defend against them IMO.

Is my thinking crooked or straight?

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:26 am

Arngrim wrote: Also, forcing the opposition to carry the ball with 1 or 2 players makes it easier to defend against them IMO.

Yep, especially if you have kick. Also if you a drive goes pearshaped and you lose possession chances are his SH player isn't near enough to get to the ball. In this case strip ball can often save the day (just keep your SB player central).

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:13 pm

mattgslater wrote:Guard on a Thrower is to put him at OLB and ensure that he becomes Will...

He becomes Sam because people will go towards him... to beat him up! I think with elves, people often run towards the guard player if they can... simply to get to pound on him and get him out of the game.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:17 pm

Jural wrote:
mattgslater wrote:Guard on a Thrower is to put him at OLB and ensure that he becomes Will...
He becomes Sam because people will go towards him... to beat him up! I think with elves, people often run towards the guard player if they can... simply to get to pound on him and get him out of the game.

No way! Well, that's another 2TTD for you, and for his part, he gets a 3/4 shot at a 5/12 shot at a 1/6 shot, twice! Somehow I'm not worried. Blitzing an OLB on the first turn of the drive is basically conceding that the defender is the superior coach. Honestly, if your opponent doesn't hit a cornerback or ILB, he won't be able to get enough depth with the cage, and is conceding the turnover (well, conceding the initiative: you could still flub it).

After turn 1, you're totally right. But you know elves... turning the game over every other turn is a moral imperative, as scoring saves lives!

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:17 pm

mattgslater wrote:

No way! Well, that's another 2TTD for you, and for his part, he gets a 3/4 shot at a 5/12 shot at a 1/6 shot, twice! Somehow I'm not worried. Blitzing an OLB on the first turn of the drive is basically conceding that the defender is the superior coach. Honestly, if your opponent doesn't hit a cornerback or ILB, he won't be able to get enough depth with the cage, and is conceding the turnover (well, conceding the initiative: you could still flub it).

After turn 1, you're totally right. But you know elves... turning the game over every other turn is a moral imperative, as scoring saves lives!

Yeah, I guess that's the other side of things... if they are overzealous and sell out to hit the guard player on Turn 1, you will win that game more often than not.

Arngrim · Post by **Arngrim** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:07 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote:
Arngrim wrote: Also, forcing the opposition to carry the ball with 1 or 2 players makes it easier to defend against them IMO.
Yep, especially if you have kick. Also if you a drive goes pearshaped and you lose possession chances are his SH player isn't near enough to get to the ball. In this case strip ball can often save the day (just keep your SB player central).

Yep, Kick is the first lineman skill I chose, and with 2 SBall, I keep them on the flanks, with M8, one or both should be in reach.
I'm basically decided on the skills, but still not happy with not choosing guard when I can. Ah well, when I next roll a 2 on a short Pass, I gues I'll like that SArm...

So:
WD+SB gets SS
WD gets SB
Lineelf gets SS
Passer gets SArm.

Next game is on friday, so I still have a few days to reconsider..

Arngrim · Post by **Arngrim** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:22 am

Ok. time for an update:
The game last friday was cancelled, but today I played the Dwarfs again, and this time I won 2-1, by managing a 1TTD in the last turn.

A very even game, and I rolled an 11 on a lineelf, (but opted against +AG, and chose block instead. I figured that I need at least 2 players besides the Wardancers with Block). Opinions?
-Edit: I slept on the matter, and changed my mind and went for the + AG instead

But speaking of Wardancers, number2, the one with just Strip Ball, got +1 Strength!

Oh Bliss, Oh Joy! I bought a second thrower to give leader to later, and got +1 FF.
Current roster:
WD SBall, SStep, 20SPP
WD SBall, +1S 16SPP
Tree 4SPP
Lineman SStep 7SPP
Thrower SArm 7SPP
Thrower 0
Lineelf 5SPP
Lineelf 2SPP
Lineelf +AG 10SPP
Lineelf 2SPP
Linelf Kick 8SPP

2RR
5FF
Apoth
30K

The plan is to buy a Catcher when I get 90K

So... chosing AG on a Lineelf, good or bad idea?

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