Inverted defense for Pro Elves good idea or no?

[mattgslater]

OK, I've been playing Pro Elves, and it's worked like a charm so far. I want to see what y'all think of a variant 3-4, that's really more of a 3-2 dime.

OK, so here's what I do. First, I set up linos at OLB, in a more typical defensive formation, trying to skill two of them up ASAP, so I have a Side Stepper and a Kicker, and I take the standard "Charlie Brown" 3-4, with Side Step on the * players (blitzers on the corner).

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- - - -|- - x * x - -|- - - -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x - -
- * - -|x - - - - - x|- - * -

But then when another lino goes up, I'm having all kinds of funky visions. Up to this point, I've been sticking them in at DE against bash and ILB against speed, and using their bodies to clog the middle. But that leaves me another question.

Say I've got 4 linos with improvement, not counting stat increases. Three will have either SS or Guard, and the other will have Kick. By this time, I'll have Blitzers with Dodge, mostly, so I'm not afraid of taking 3d from a non-Tackle opponent, if it means I get what I want.

What I'm considering doing is moving the corner up one, the OLB back one (to become a defensive back rather than a linebacker), and moving the ILB outside one and the OLB inside one. By this point, my Blitzers almost certainly have Dodge, and are corners par excellence. I'm almost certainly facing some Grab and some Frenzy, but thank Nuffle it's guaranteed to be coming from different directions, and few teams will field more than two Grabbers. I have three Catchers, a Thrower and a Lino who probably all have skills and want to get some game time in at safety.

So now, here's how it looks:

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- - - -|- - * * * - -|- - - -
- * - -|x - - - - - x|- - * -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x - -

WDYT? It lets me protect four players, doesn't allow a crowd push, and doesn't allow a way in without Grab on the corner (in which case it lets in one square along the edge) or three Grabs on the line (which I take as a compliment). 3d on the corner is possible with big guys, but they seldom have Tackle, so it's only 91 perms for a knockdown out of 216.

Obvious problems? What should I get the ILBs when they skill? Remember, Moe has good SPP potential (though Mike will die a lot).

[s031720]

Looks pretty solid to me actually.

I have to think about it tomorrow when Ive slept more, but I like what I see.

Dont understand the terms you are using, but anyways, sidestep on the widezone fronters is a great move. Grab dont work on blitz. He needs to get you down to get by. Wrackle or Frenzy would be two possible keys, but not super effective.

Grab do work on the LOS, so I think this defense would force most opponents through the middle. Ofcourse, bashing teams wouldnt be in a hurry to start with, theyd just close in for that ol' sweet elven snuggle, and watch you dodge away or hit you next turn.

But against Mobile- and Agility-teams, this might work wonders. Gonna sleep on it.

Edit:
And how the h*** do you get such a nice "ascii" setup of the defense? Mine was all distorted.

[mattgslater]

I thought Grab canceled SS on a blitz....

Use the code function, and you'll get a nice unkerned Courier-style thing.

Here's a specific question: can you break it with two Grab'ers?

[Master Wang]

I don't think you can break it with two Grab'ers, but maybe a better mind than mine can figure it out.

Btw, Matt, you've got loads to say on defensive formations, some of which I've put to great use on the pitch. If you have the time and/or motivation, any chance of you going through your posts on them and arranging them into a sticky? I remember you had a great one on nickle and dime set ups. Included in it could be a reference key of the terms you use (I know what they are, but I've had to ask before). It'd also then be interesting to hear people's thoughts on how they'd get through those.

[s031720]

Yes, you are right and I am confused.
I was thinking grab and frenzy, since that was the combination I was contemplating. Nevermind.

Grab and SS cancel eachother out.

Im not sure what you mean with "break" that defense, but I dont think there is any defense that are unbreakable in the sense that you cant get a few players pass it in the first turn. And Im not sure why bashing teams would be in a hurry to start with.

Anyhew, not optimal, but manageble:
If you have one of the graber blitz your widezone fronter sideways, with a push he will have created a corridor.

If you have the other of the grabers block one of your outer LOSers, with a Push, he will block the other ones.

Prone would be better in both cases ofcourse.

If you want the ball along, you will need a successful shortpass and handoff. Works for some teams, not so well for others.

Made some pics in the playcreator just for fun, but they might need some finetuning on the details.

Possible Set up


The Block, blitz and pass


The handoff and forming of a cage


The safer alterantive with less ball handling. 9 and 10 at diffrent starting positions and the cage would form diffrently, Id put Blue 6 just below Yellow 6 for instance.



Btw, just noticed you had Kick, that would change the ballhandling bit.

[Coach Harris]

[Coach Harris]

[Biff]

Ive based my defence play on Matts advice as well, and since then Ive only lost 2 games (in 20) and been scored against 15 times.

Regarding the set up, I like it. I will use the wide zone set up with all teams I currently play (human, orc and pro elf) as long as they have 2 Side Steppers. And with 3 SS´s on LOD it does seem unbreakable (that is, it takes a 2 TZ dodge, which means AG5).

Of course, you could foul a knocked down SS:er, to make a hole in the line, but if that happens its a AV6 roll (unless they have DP) and that means he will get sent off more often than you.

I will try this as soon as possible, and let you know how it went.

[s031720]

Thanks, but how did you do it? Ive tried every button there is..

[Coach Harris]

Sorry for the double-post.

your url's for your pictures have symbols on them (yours has a ? in it for some reason)

Dynamic tags such as ? * < > / etc. make the image untranslatable on some message boards and as such won't show up (i.e. the message board doesn't understand that you are trying to post a picture). I was able to make yours show up by Print Screening your picture and pasting it to Paint, saving it under a different, more simpler name, and then uploading it to my photobucket account.

Hope that helps.

[s031720]

Yes, thanks

Ill remember to name them as easy as possible in the future.

Edit:
Must be my fileformat or something. Ill try save them as something else. Ok got it, but uncropped for some reason. But still a big leap forwards. Thank you.

[Subhedgehog]

So now, here's how it looks:

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- - - -|- - * * * - -|- - - -
- * - -|x - - - - - x|- - * -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x - -

This is the defense I set up with for my elves and I love it. I've played 10 games so far, so my team is not full of superstars but most of my line elves have a skill. One adjustment I make, however, is to spread the line-elves out.

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- - - -|- L - L - L -|- - - -
- B - -|L - - - - - L|- - B -
- - C -|- L - - - T -|- C - -

I have a dodger at left end and a wrestler at right end. Whatever poor sucker rookie or journeyman I have gets stuck in the middle. I've found this makes most of my bashy opponents over commit to the LOS to try and outnumber my line elves, sticking their strong blocker in the middle to beat up on McRookie, which is fine by me. I have two guards which go into the OLB spots that can easily shift to where ever the blitzers want to hit someone. The over commit to the LOS means I'm usually one up in their backfield when I envelop their formation from the weak side, and even in my backfield on their strong side. I've had minimal problems with caging up the middle as I normally collapse their formation from behind after a few turns. Strip the ball and watch it bounce in the ruck - wherever it comes out is usually good for me. This has led to a bunch of turnovers in my favour.

[spubbbba]

I don't really understand most of the terms used in the OP's original post.

But is it not risking giving away a lot of free blocks if the other team gets a quick snap? Something Pro elfs really can't afford to do.

Also most teams won't want to score quickly vs Pro elfs (unless it is late in the half of course) and that defence only keeps 2 players safe from being blitzed.

[Subhedgehog]

But is it not risking giving away a lot of free blocks if the other team gets a quick snap? Something Pro elfs really can't afford to do.

If you live in fear of a quick snap, back everyone up one space from the line of scrimmage. In retrospect, I probably do that more that I do the pushed forward version displayed... However, with your blitzers on the corners it is not such a big risk. Sidestep and block help keep you on your feet and in position to funnel people past your second line of defense.

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- B - -|L - - - - - L|- - B -
- - C -|- L - - - T -|- C - -

[Biff]

If you live in fear of a quick snap, back everyone up one space from the line of scrimmage. In retrospect, I probably do that more that I do the pushed forward version displayed... However, with your blitzers on the corners it is not such a big risk. Sidestep and block help keep you on your feet and in position to funnel people past your second line of defense.

But if you do that, the line up isnt "unbreakable" anymore. Its just a blitz and a regular dodge and youre through.