How to use a WE Treeman?

[The Souljourner]

I've played a few games with my wood elves, and honestly, I kinda regret taking the treeman. He just doesn't fit with the team at all. He's not even much of a threat, because of his considerably low movement. I put him on the line, he busts heads a little, but without any backup, he can't do a whole lot, and it often ends up that I have a treeman in the middle of the field with no one around him (ooh ooh, he's open! ...nah)

Any suggestions? now I kinda wish I'd just gotten a lineman and another reroll.

[Magictobe]

Why is a Tree good?

1) A tree in the line of scrimmage is an elf less in the line of scrimmage. Wood elfs have armour 7. They break easily. The tree is an oppurtinity less of a block on an elf.

2) A tree can hold some players by it's side. When you are playing a low Agility team, your tree can hold some players in it's tackle zone. When you give grab to your tree, you can hit them and still hold them in your tackle zone (even when you are rooted)

3) He is big and has Mighty Blow. He is big so he often got two or three die to block. When he hits, he hits hard with mighty blow.

This said. When I play wood elfs on tournament, I do not play the tree. When I play league, I will always play the tree. Most of all for first reason given.

[mattgslater]

Treemen are very good when you're confident in your ability with Wood Elves. At some point, you'll get to the level where against most coaches you can turn the game over every 2-4 turns, and when that happens, you'll find yourself setting up on defense most of the time. At that point, you'll still lose the occasional game, and when you do it's usually because all those d-line setups are yielding injuries that make it harder to break cages and allow the opponent to grind out touchdowns. Three linos on the line are much easier to hurt than two linos and a Tree, especially a Tree with Guard, so over time he acts like an extra Apothecary.

Also, when your team starts to build Side Step, a pair of SS Linos at inside LB, plus a Treeman on the nose, makes it very difficult to penetrate. Against most offenses, which build up a strong side and try to push the cage that way, this tends to make the Tree (well, the zero-position in general) the demarcation line for the active quadrant of the field. On a related note, he makes it hard to drive up Broadway, which is not great by itself but sure makes defending the inside LB positions easier.

There's a third benefit, albeit a minor one. Trees start with MB. You're not going to generally win the casualty wars, but if by chance the Tree puts you man-up on a slow team at the beginning of the match, that's an overwhelming advantage. Elves are good at coping with man-down situations, but they're also way better than bash teams when it comes to taking advantage of an opposing player deficit (not at getting that deficit, mind you, but at using it if it comes to them).

[PubBowler]

At some point, you'll get to the level where against most coaches you can turn the game over every 2-4 turns, and when that happens, you'll find yourself setting up on defense most of the time.

Only if you play opponents much worse than yourself and never step outside your comfort zone.

And against poor opponents is where a Treeman has the power to win games as he spends time and players trying to take him out.

[mattgslater]

Nah. I'm talking about good teams, including coaches who know to ignore the Tree. Even a well-run Orc team can be pressured out of OSPT with a little luck and a lot of effort. True bog teams (not Orcs, who have a passing option, but Undead, Dwarfs, etc) are at a massive structural disadvantage against Woodies: Dwarfs kind of mask this with all their Tackle and Frenzy.

A well run WE team should still be able to stop the cage before it forms frequently, and when that fails should break the cage at the halfway-line sometimes. When that fails, you should open it up at some point downfield sometimes, and when that fails, you should pressure TDs sometimes. And only when that fails should you give up a 6-8-turner. It does happen... but a good Wood Elf coach can keep it down to one drive out of four or five against bash in general, or maybe one of three against highly skilled bash.

[Der_Doodle]

Easiest way to use a Treeman in a Woodie Team is the following:

"Dont buy one"

and you will have alot more fun

[Mad Jackal]

I would suggest taking him and leaving him on the LOS when you kick. And if he can move, great, if not, fine. He is there to soak hits, tie up players, and keep elves from dying.


On offense I've found a grab tree to be extremely useful.

But I don't play my woodies like any-one else I've seen on here either...

So feel free to take any advice from me with a grain of sand. The Gaston Rebels in the MBBL have only been fair to middling over-all.

[Cramy]

To me the tree is only useful on defence against bash teams. The bash team will try to slowly move-up the field. The tree will force him to pick a side, where you can then concentrate your efforts to defend. That's also when you need to be able to soak-up hits on the LoS.

Against fast teams, he'll be left by himself.

On offence, you will leave him behind all the time.

I'd get a tree as one of my last purchases for the team, and I'd get one only if I'm facing lots of bash. Otherwise a lino is much better value IMO.

I do agree that grab should be the first skill that a WE tree gets.

[sirsebstar]

I have a tree with block and guard. I wish I had given it Grab instead.
To me its the perfect player. I always know whom to set up on the LOS.
Also on offence he gets a 3 dice block. always nice.
Sure 2 turns after that everybody dodge's away but by then the damage has been done. I finally do not have to contend with 4+ casualties every game.
The tree, to me its almost a better gameplayer then the OTT catcher

[dwarfrunner]

Why is a Tree good?

1) A tree in the line of scrimmage is an elf less in the line of scrimmage. Wood elfs have armour 7. They break easily. The tree is an oppurtinity less of a block on an elf.

2) A tree can hold some players by it's side. When you are playing a low Agility team, your tree can hold some players in it's tackle zone. When you give grab to your tree, you can hit them and still hold them in your tackle zone (even when you are rooted)

3) He is big and has Mighty Blow. He is big so he often got two or three die to block. When he hits, he hits hard with mighty blow.

This said. When I play wood elfs on tournament, I do not play the tree. When I play league, I will always play the tree. Most of all for first reason given.

I totally agree. Treeman are there for the intimidation factor. And to absorb as much punishment as possible, so too free up yout other players. They are rarely involved in the drive more than one or two turns, unless you picks a side of the field to avoid the tree then changes to the other side. Thats when you can push players towards the tree.

And grab is key, even more than guard. Because he can keep players in his TZ, and one that I would recommend as well is Pro (but thats alot of doubles rolls for one treeman), simple because it gives him less chance to take root and keep him in the play.

[mattgslater]

A: The Tree is best at the start of a drive.
B: More successful Wood Elf teams run shorter drives on both offense and defense.
Therefore,
C: The Tree is better as an insurance policy on a successful Wood Elf team than as a savior on a struggling one.

If I'm not sure about my abilities as a Wood Elf coach, the Tree is either off the menu entirely or a late purchase after I already have 2WD, 2CA, 1 Thrower, 2 RRs and an Apothecary. If I am, then it's a #2 purchase once the season begins (after the Apothecary). In a tourney I'd take one at 110, but not at 100.

Anyone have success with Multiple Block? I have yet to play Woodies in these rules (fallen in love with Pro Elves), and I can't help but salivate at the new MultiBlock on a ST6 player.

[DoubleSkulls]

Three linos on the line are much easier to hurt than two linos and a Tree, especially a Tree with Guard, so over time he acts like an extra Apothecary.

Exactly. Trees aren't that good at anything else. Poor coaches can sometimes be sucked into ganging up on the tree which makes their job (punishment absorbers) work better. Good coaches will ignore the tree as much as possible.

Grab is a good choice on a tree as well as guard because it means you've less to fear from taking root.

[Jural]

The correct answer to this thread has not been given. I'm surprised even a member of the BBRC got it wrong. Mattgslater was guaranteed to get it wrong because it can't be easily diagrammed.

Anyway, the correct way to use a Wood Elf tree is to start the bonfire that will cook your wood elves. Start with the smaller branches for kindling, and add the larger branches as the fire grows. Be sure to keep some of the longer branches to use as spits for the wardancers and catchers.

That settles it. A Mod can close the thread now.

[FischerKing]

Why is a Tree good?

1) A tree in the line of scrimmage is an elf less in the line of scrimmage. Wood elfs have armour 7. They break easily. The tree is an oppurtinity less of a block on an elf.

2) A tree can hold some players by it's side. When you are playing a low Agility team, your tree can hold some players in it's tackle zone. When you give grab to your tree, you can hit them and still hold them in your tackle zone (even when you are rooted)

3) He is big and has Mighty Blow. He is big so he often got two or three die to block. When he hits, he hits hard with mighty blow.

This said. When I play wood elfs on tournament, I do not play the tree. When I play league, I will always play the tree. Most of all for first reason given.

Let me add to that. Its nice to have a str. 6 player from time to time, when you need to make a oneturner by pushing a very strong lineup (goblins who hired Ripper or Morg, or something similar) or a lineup with alot of guard. Best chance in most of these cases is to make the tree make the first blitz.

The post above sums up the rest pretty good, basicly your treeman helps the rest of the team by taking the beating for them, and tying up low ag players. As some have said, against a caging team, he will be in the center and thus force the other team to cage down one of the sides, thats pretty valuable.

Since the tournaments I play implementet 110 TV rosters, I have been taking a tree, and I had alot of succes with that roster, never going home without a personal Throphy. Even with his low movement he can tie up players, no matter how good the other guy is playing, just dont roll a 1 If he can get into a good possition, you can try and make go for its with him as the last thing you do, the benefits of a good possitioned tree is much higher than the risk of him falling and being on the ground for alot of turns.

Your treeman can develop into a great player with a little luck, like + Movement increase, a double for block or pro or maybe two doubles. I always buy him after I have 2 wardancers and an apothecary, because he helps your team survive, and you need to start building him pretty early as he doesnt get spp's that fast.
Look at my league tree for inspiration: http://www.arosbb.dk/default.asp?p=pl&pid=2659

Next thing he takes is break tackle and I have a potential cagebreaker.

Someone talked about bad coaches and good coaches (who will try to awoid him) The thing is, he will help your team survive in a league because the bad coaches who might have killer teams will try their best to hurt him, and that will save alot of elves. It doesnt take a good coach to hurt a woodelf team, it just takes some killer skills, so in a league were killer/heavy armoured teams normaly have an adventage, a tree is very usefull.

First normal skill I give a tree is Guard, as it helps your blocking on the line, and your oneturn chainpushes. Then he gets skills like grab, break tackle or multiblock.

[Mad Jackal]

We may have to discuss the one turn chain pushes that involve guard. I certainly don't use one,,,,, but it might be interesting to add to my playbook.

On doubles for a woody tree. I like Jump up Firdt. I just do. Standing trees save lives, not downed trees.