Chaos Team experience

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:46 pm

I've recently started in an 11 player league using a chaos team, and since I haven't seen much feedback on LRB5+ chaos, I thought I'd make a thread to give my views on them.

My league has the following teams:
Orcs x 2
Chaos Dwarfs
Ogres
Norse
Lizardmen x 2
Goblins
Humans
Vampires
Chaos

There's a few experienced players, but most are new, and I'm by far the most experienced coach in the league.

We're using LRB5b rules, but there's a bit of a quirk with how the rules work. Each week you have a scheduled match which is a normal game (will add in a random 50k special play card for both players soon I believe), and you can play one other friendly match against anyone. In the friendlies, nobody can get hurt worse than MNG, your FF doesn't change, and you can earn max 20k.

So game 1 was vs CD with a bit of a bench (2 bulls, 4 blockers, 7 hobgobs). My roster is the 4 warrior, 7 beastman, 3 reroll version. I managed a lucky 1-0 win after bad dice in the first half (2 turns of failed pickups and 3 players KO'd to none of his). Second half he misplayed his offence which let me recover the ball.

The team was a little more solid than the LRB4 version, with a strong line which wasn't possible, but the main weaknesses are still there. You roll both downs just as much and ballhandling is still tough. The extra warriors were helpful in tying up players more than anything, but they're not much of an overpowering advantage.

Second game was a friendly against vamps which was a 2-2 tie with me actually being outbashed (1 MNG for me, nothing done to him). Sometimes AV7 acts like AV10.

On the plus side, I skilled 2 warriors (block) and a beastman (extra arms).

Next I had a scheduled match against the vamps in which I got hot dice and won 3-0. The extra arms beastman was really useful, allowing me to take advantage of a blitz with a ball scattered to the line (catch on a 3+ rather than 2+) and in general just to allow me a little more flexibility in playing the ball, like running a short passing attempt when the rerolls were all gone. That's actually something to consider....passing isn't chaos' forte, but it's not something to be afraid of trying depending on field position. During the game, I skilled a third warrior and have block across the line, and I bought my 12th player (a beastman). So my skills aren't that interesting as of yet.

My plan is to buy a minotaur, which I'll likely get tents on ASAP considering how many low strength teams there are, and to just get lots of block on the team. If the league was a little more balanced (aka....not over half of the teams with S2 dodge players), I might be tempted to take some early claw and frenzy, but those will wait for now.

I'll be updating this with my thoughts on the team, and on the league developments as I gain experience.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:32 pm

With half the teams in your league being high AV teams, I would suggest trying to tailor your warriors a bit. After the 4th one gets block, I would try for a single MB/Claw combo, two Guard/Stand Firm players, and one Tackle player for the agility teams.

Keep the beastmen simple to start. +ST and +AG are no brainers, but take doubles sparingly and you should do pretty well against that spread of teams.

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:11 pm

I think that that blitzroll should have been a 3+ (since an inaccurate pass is 4+ with ag 3)

Anyways, Im going 2 beasts with extra arms, love it. Greater ballhandling and mobility. Block and Guard are of course staple skills. Frenzy is nice too.

For my warriors ive gone MB, Block, Claws, and will probably get tackle next if I get more skills. They are fun to play with.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:08 pm

Storch wrote:With half the teams in your league being high AV teams, I would suggest trying to tailor your warriors a bit. After the 4th one gets block, I would try for a single MB/Claw combo, two Guard/Stand Firm players, and one Tackle player for the agility teams.

I'll get some claw/MB in there eventually, but I'm not really in a rush. Having a solid line with block and guard makes you more bashy than forcing an early claw/MB ever will. A single tackle seems like not enough though, considering most teams have a decent amount of dodge (one of the orc teams has 4 goblins, 2 lizardmen teams are full of dodge, ogres are dodge heavy, goblins have goblins, humans and norse have catchers, and vamps will soon have blodge). Really...tackle isn't needed for 2 of the teams. I'll probably try to get 2 tackles once I'm up and around TV150, and I'll get one of them MB/piling on to cause some serious player removal.

Storch wrote:Keep the beastmen simple to start. +ST and +AG are no brainers, but take doubles sparingly and you should do pretty well against that spread of teams.

I was going to take leap on my first double or two on a beast. I know it's not ideal until there's a few extra skills, but it's interesting, opens new tactics, and I figure I can compensate for not having the most efficient team considering my experience advantage.

s031720 wrote:I think that that blitzroll should have been a 3+ (since an inaccurate pass is 4+ with ag 3)

I actually typed that wrong. I meant to say 3+ rather than 4+. As I wrote doesn't really make sense.

s031720 wrote:For my warriors ive gone MB, Block, Claws, and will probably get tackle next if I get more skills. They are fun to play with.

You started with MB? How'd that work out? I found block to be an easy choice since I was really burning rerolls on both downs. Plus, block is much better than MB against opponents without block, meaning they don't even really slow down development by taking block. Later in the season if/when I have to replace a warrior, I might take MB before block though.

Oh, and I'm playing a friendly against the norse team tomorrow morning. Let's hope his MB snow troll rolls badly. :S

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:09 pm

Decker_cky wrote:I'll get some claw/MB in there eventually, but I'm not really in a rush. Having a solid line with block and guard makes you more bashy than forcing an early claw/MB ever will. A single tackle seems like not enough though, considering most teams have a decent amount of dodge (one of the orc teams has 4 goblins, 2 lizardmen teams are full of dodge, ogres are dodge heavy, goblins have goblins, humans and norse have catchers, and vamps will soon have blodge). Really...tackle isn't needed for 2 of the teams. I'll probably try to get 2 tackles once I'm up and around TV150, and I'll get one of them MB/piling on to cause some serious player removal.

The claw will come in real handy against saurses and once they go down they skinks are easy.

As for tackle, I said one to start because you use him like a safety. Human catchers run down, get clobbered. Goblins will squish naturally. For Vamps you really want the claw/MB player to also have tackle.

The main reason I suggested taking claw now, is that is will speed up your development of that player quite a bit so you can take Guard or what have you sooner. My two claw/MB players lead the team in CAS (not surprisingly) and I only have PO on one of them and use it quite sparingly.

Decker_cky wrote:I was going to take leap on my first double or two on a beast. I know it's not ideal until there's a few extra skills, but it's interesting, opens new tactics, and I figure I can compensate for not having the most efficient team considering my experience advantage.

Do it. It's a ton of fun. I got lucky and his next advance was +AG, making him my go-to ball carrier. He is incredible.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:31 pm

Well...I'll consider going for a killer player a little earlier, but mighty blow has to be before claw (much better skill and useful against everyone).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:15 pm

Actually, given all the ST2, I'd get a Block Beastman as fast as possible and try to skill him again into MB. Against all this ST2, MB is actually a better safety skill than Tackle, since 3d isn't hard for you. It's also great against Vamps and CDs if you expect to see either of those again.

A couple of outside linebackers with Guard might also be a good investment. I think Guard should also be your #2 skill on the first 1-3 Warriors to get to it, depending on how you structure your D. After that, you can start playing around with MB, Stand Firm and the like. I'd try to go Guard-Guard-Guard-SF as my respective #2 selections, with Dodge on doubles (Blodge/AG3/ST4 is coolness).

MB is a great first selection if you trust yourself to keep putting the player up on Blitzers or other guys with Block or Wrestle. He'll go up way faster. This is especially true early in a season. A Beastman with 7 SPP needs 2 casualties to be a TD away from scoring; with MB that can be accomplished in about 2-3 games.

If you care at all about the Orcs or CDs, get the Mino Claw first, as the ability to chomp ST3/Block with 3d/MB/Claw is just deadly against teams that rely on AV9, and this guy can actually change the value of blocks on big guys. Remember, Snow Trolls are bad news when your line lives on ST4/AV9/120k players with Block.

Storch · Post by **Storch** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:00 am

I second Matt's suggestions.
I would cycle your beastmen's first skills between Block, Guard, and one or two with Mighty Blow.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:40 am

Oops... 7 SPP + THREE cas and a TD or two Cas and an MVP to get to the 2nd roll. But it's still not hard.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:53 pm

Ok....had the Norse match and got a 3-0 blowout and got two skilled beastmen. I gave one the safe choice with block, and the other (now at 9 SPP) I took the fun choice with an early claw. I consider it a fun choice where an extra block would likely be ideal, but I'll likely get some higher AV teams in the near future and I figured I'd test out the prevailing opinions here.

The game should have been closer, but his induced chainsaw was caught on a turn 1 foul and his snow troll rolled badly for his armour/injury rolls. This let me have a player advantage, and aside from wasting my rerolls in the first 3 turns, I had pretty solid dice.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:10 pm

I find early Claw to be extremely weak. It needs probably both Block and MB to be truly effective. I took Claw first skill on a Chaos Dwarf once, and he took forever to score enough cas to get a second skill. Conversely, I had another CD go Guard, MB and only then Claw. He got to 76SPP faster than my Claw guy got to 16.

Course I did take piling on as his fourth skill.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:14 pm

Well....I'm not too concerned since I can just score with him to skill him up, but he does give me something different in my arsenal to use against orcs and saurus. Like I said...it probably isn't the best choice, but it's worth trying out.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:16 pm

Its true that Claw is probably your best (only?) hope of standing toe-to-toe with the AV9 bash teams.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:51 pm

Claw isn't too bad on a Chaos Dwarf, since he's already got Block and Tackle.

A Beastman, on the other hand, has only Horns. Ideally every single Beastman should get Block first (bar maybe one with Extra Arms to act as a ball carrier) and then half should get Guard as their second skill before moving onto more exotic skills.

But then that is a little boring, and means an early Chaos team is a real grinder to skill up.

Personally I'd rather have Block/Claw on a Chaos Warrior. Especially if you have two more Warriors with Block/Guard either side of him on the LOS. Now that would make even Ogres cringe.

~Andromidius

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:03 am

Well....my experience regarding this is more from LRB5, but I always liked my killer players to be beastmen, since they tend to be more mobile to apply their blitzes where they're needed. Warriors aren't much less mobile, but they tend to get stuck in more often. That means they need as much guard as possible to set up 2D blitzes and chains of 2D blocks.