All about Dark Elves

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:57 pm

My Dark Elves have been severly beaten up against various opponents, but I finally managed to win a game yesterday that saw one Blitzer and both Runners advance

Blitzer - rolled Snake Eyes - I took Mighty Blow
Runner rolled 11 - I too the AG
Runner - rolled Dub 2 - I took Guard.

I try not to get caught up in passers passing etc, and the Runners always seem to be in and around the action so I figured that Guard over Dodge would be best, that way I can use the AG4 to break the cages and the Guard to assist all and sundry.

My match just finished was a great example of cage breaking, dodging on 5+ to lay a 1 dice blitz on....

My opponent did say he felt no confidence in his cage as I seemed to get to the ball carrier at will.

It wasn't all my own way though as every time I pop the ball loose my first 2+ dodge or 2+ GFI would see me KO'd

I have not submittted the result yet so I could still change the skills, anyone think differently?

rest of team

Blitzer - Strip Ball
Blitzer
Assassin - purchase after this game
Lineman - -1MA
Lineman *4 no skills

This will be my first game without 1 or 2 Journeyman since I started the team.

no Cash
only 1 reroll
I do have an Apo, he is so useless though, couldn't save if he joined a xmas club!

Axtklinge · Post by **Axtklinge** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:33 pm

Of course its your call, and none better than you to know how you like to use the positionals of your team, still IMO you should consider that to be effective the "Guard" player (in this case the Runner) should to be where in fact you dont want it to be: in the middle of the "smack zone"!
If you do belive he should get a skill for "action", I would give him block rather than guard (and forget the double on this positional), as it gives better chances to survive if he gets blocked, or even if you need to block with him.
Dodge and Side Step would be other interesting skills for the runner too.

As for the Blitzer, either MB or Guard would be the usual choices.
Once again Dodge or Side Step can be good skills for a Blitzer too.

Cheers
Axt

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:56 pm

Arngrim

Excellent thread BTW, All races should have one!

I vote sticky.

Thank you. Im home again after christmas, so Ill be sure to be looking at the oneturntouchdown over and update with new graphics.

Voyager:
There have been some debate about MB versus Guard on the Blitzers, but I prefer MB on them. So I agree with that choice.

Guard on a runner is a very viable choice, also lessens the "opportunity-cost" of not choosing guard on the blitzer, so good choice too. I dont find there to be very useful doubles for the runners, so he could just aswell take one for the team (ie guard) or skip it all together for an ordinary skill.

And agility is just lovely on the runner, I would make him into a ball retriever with Leap, Sure hands and NoS. Best way to pick up balls in TZs. That beeing said, I would skip any double on this player for the next three skills.

Looks like quality choices to me.

Sad to see your team to be that dismembered, but having up to 3 journeyman arent that bad. Put them on LOS and as fodder while you save your money for more RR. It dosent matter if they die, or get hurt, DE can play with fewer players on the pitch, and get new healthy journeymen for next game.
1 RR is to little. You will have untimely turnovers and it will hurt the health of your team. My advice it to skip the Assassin and get more RR asap.

Unless you have many AV 7 teams in your league, I dont think assassin is a good choice for next playerbuy. After Id got 1 or 2 more rerolls I would get full batch of Blitzers instead. Then 1 WE, 1 AS, Last Runner, Last WE and probably not get the last AS atall.

It will take forever though. Maybe Id go with a WE earlier just to open up new strategic options quicker.

Good luck and tell us how things develop.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:01 am

I think there are several avenues on skill development. I wouldn't take Side Step on a onesy-twosy basis, for instance: it'd be #1 for me on line-elves 2-4 and on blitzers 1-2, as well as #2 on one Witch. But I totally wouldn't fault anyone for ignoring it or just sticking it on a Witch or just a couple Blitzers.

oryxwild · Post by **oryxwild** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:07 am

I'm torn on sidestep. Sometimes I think it's amazing, and all linelves should be blodge sidestep or wrodge sidestep and all positionals should grab it. Other times I think it's not worth 240k TV, and only witch elves and the occaisional blitzer should bother to pick it up at all.

On that note, how does everyone develop linelves? Clones 7-13? I know I want kick on one of them and dodge on most of them, but beyond that I'm having trouble deciding whether to homogenize them and make them as annoying as possible (block/wrestle, dodge, sidestep), or to vary them for versatility and unpredictability (mix in fend, diving tackle, tackle, etc etc).

I don't expect most linelves to have more than 3 skills ever - simply not worth it in my eyes - so it's a big decision. How do you guys build your linelves?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:40 am

Here's my 2¢.

Line-Elf #1: Kick, Wrestle, DT (safety)
Line-Elf #2-4: Side Step, Wrestle (nose) or Dodge (end), the other one.
Line-Elf #5-7: Block, Side Step (ILB/backup lineman)
Doubles: Guard, Block ("joker" #5 linebacker or OLB after getting Guard, then nose after getting Block).
Doubles on #2 roll: Side Step, Guard (nose) or Kick, Guard (joker LB), or Block, Guard (nose or OLB).
10: +MA, then Block or Wrestle, as OLB or backup OLB.
10 on #2: Skill unless has Kick; then +MA.
11: +AG, then Leap or Dodge, as safety or OLB or offensive specialist. If already has Side Step, get a skill.
12: +ST as safety, then Block and an ILB spot. If already has Side Step, +ST and promote to ILB immediately.

Similarly, with Blitzers:
#1, 2: SS, Dodge, Tackle (corners)
#3: Leap, Dodge, Sure Hands (receiver/OLB)
#4: SS, DT, Dodge (ILB/backup corner)
Doubles: Guard (OLB or OLB/corner; may make #4 into #2 clone if doubles on #1 or 2). Maybe Grab.
10: MA, baby! Becomes #3 or 4.
11: AG!!! Leap next.
12: ST! Dodge next; then Tackle, then SS as @1-2.

Witches:
#1: Block, SS, Leap, DT.
#2: Wrestle, SS, Leap, DT.
Doubles: MB or Juggernaut, depending on circumstances (usually MB).
10: +MA or +AV, depending on circumstances.
11: +AG!!! Then Block, Leap, Pass Block!
12: +ST!!! Then Block, SS, DT.

oryxwild · Post by **oryxwild** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:16 am

so you don't usually get blodge or wrestle/dodge on linemen?

As a finished team, I'm quite enamored of the dark elf positional lineup - 8 ma 7 agi 4 players, while a bit fragile with the 4 av 7's, is just too juicy for me to pass up. So I'll often be playing with only 3-5 linemen on the pitch (allowing for injuries of course).

Having said that, I'm tempted to go dodge/ss on 3, wrestle or block/ss on 3 (for tackle heavy teams).

On the subject of block vs wrestle, I can't say whether I think one is definitively better for an elf team. Wrestle is certainly more versatile for getting the ball loose and opening holes in the defense, but block will keep your line steady. Do you guys have a decided preference for one or the other?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:30 am

I like Wrestle on the LOS. If the Block guy gets hit for a "both down" from another Block guy he's going to get hit again by that guy's neighbor. I prefer Wrestle also at the safety position, while I think Block is better for corners and linebackers.

From the LOS, where chain-pushes are a real threat, SS is about equal to Block or Dodge as a booty-saver (not quite like Dodge, but close), and it's got better strategic value. I totally think SS/Block/Dodge or SS/Wrestle/Dodge is great. Plus there are two teams that conventionally field an all-Blockle line, and Dodge isn't so great against that. I've never seen a team with more than two instances of Grab, and even that is rare outside of Skaven or Humans, who might use it as an OTS-generator.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:36 am

s031720 wrote:
Voyager:
Sad to see your team to be that dismembered, but having up to 3 journeyman arent that bad. Put them on LOS and as fodder while you save your money for more RR. It dosent matter if they die, or get hurt, DE can play with fewer players on the pitch, and get new healthy journeymen for next game.
1 RR is to little. You will have untimely turnovers and it will hurt the health of your team. My advice it to skip the Assassin and get more RR asap.

Unless you have many AV 7 teams in your league, I dont think assassin is a good choice for next playerbuy. After Id got 1 or 2 more rerolls I would get full batch of Blitzers instead. Then 1 WE, 1 AS, Last Runner, Last WE and probably not get the last AS atall.

It will take forever though. Maybe Id go with a WE earlier just to open up new strategic options quicker.

Good luck and tell us how things develop.

Thanks for having my back... I know 1 reroll isn't enough, but I find that after it has gone, I tend to play with a lot more abandon and try plays that I would check down from in a situation where I still have a reroll. My purchases list is either a witch or a RR next followed by the other Witch/4th Blitzer or the 2nd assassin. I played 1 game with 4 Journeymen and that wasn't fun.

This team is in the MBBL so opponents are very varied in AV. I have challenged a High Elf team next where I am a 30k overdog, have to see if my skill choices and a bit of luck can help me over them.

I really last played Dark Elves in 3ed where I had a most evil team.... 8 rerolls and 2 trophy rolls at last count, but I normally only needed 3 per half at most and the games never went to overtime...

so I am keen to play this team into a skilled position, I am spreading the spp's around 3 or 4 linemen are only 2-3 spps away from skill 1 so the team will go from strength to strength.

the -MA line-elf goes on the line most of the time. I will even bench a journey elf in favour of sticking him in harms way - test his mettle so to speak.

I love Witch Elves, they are the only players I really get attached to, bad practice I know, but their sense of vindictive style is just so easy to slip into. So once I have played maybe 5 more games I might have 1(or two if I can win 3 of them).

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:42 am

he -MA line-elf goes on the line most of the time. I will even bench a journey elf in favour of sticking him in harms way - test his mettle so to speak.

Hehe, I see you are into the spirit of Dark Elves.

If you really want him to become a target, give him dirty player if he survives that long, and after that you wont have to wait long until you get to replace him..

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:43 am

I had planned on sneaky git first....

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:55 am

Yes that would do the trick aswell.

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:26 am

My brother and I have just finished playing a mini Xmas tournament of sorts while I've been back in the UK. It involved his new Dark Elf team playing a series of warm games (ended up being 4 in total versus Pro Elves(Tie), Human(Loss), Skaven(BIG Loss), Dwarves (Tight Win), then playing a final against my 1,250,000 Orc team that I use in Japan. I seriously regretted giving him advice about Quick Passes for easy SPP, advice on skills, and giving him the final warm up game against the Dwarves (my Orcs were only 3 games old) as I ended up facing this;

BL +Dodge
BL
BL
BL
LM +Kick
LM +Block
LM +Guard
LM +Dodge
LM
LM
WE +Mighty Blow
2 Re-rolls
FF 1
Assistant Coach 1

This made me the underdog and I'm sad to say I ended up giving up just before the end of the first half and his second touch down. The ins and outs of the game aren't too important (a string of double ones, double skulls and Blitz on the Kick Off

) but the short progression illustrates how nicely Dark Elves can develop after a few games. After getting 2 MVPs and 3SPPs for a TD and 1 for a COMP he now also has Sidestep on a Blitzer and Dodge on another, and several other players are close to more skill ups.

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:28 pm

6 skills in 4 games arent bad at all. And 2 doubles out of those 6.

On my current team ive gotten 9 skills out of 5 games, but had a +AG blitzer die on me. :/ So after replacing him, I only just could afford my first WE. 5 games in. Not optimal. Not optimal at all. (That equals 210/5 = 40k gold per game, and that is with 3 rerolls and 2* +10k tie income). Wich I realise when I look at it now isnt as bad as it felt.

Anyways, moral of the story; as long as you dont loose any players DE have a very quick start. Make sure you do the right skill choices and you will be competetive at higher TV aswell.

s031720 · Post by **s031720** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Updated with an inducement-section.