The temptation of woodelves

[PubBowler]

But I'm terrified of the idea of not having two WDs to begin. They're very expensive, yes, but man they're good. It's very hard to buy a 120k player after the season starts when your linos are AV7 and 70k. 90k for a Thrower or Catcher is easier to manage.

I agree with you regarding rotation of passing duties.

And especially TuernRedvenoms comment on passing difficulty.
The vast majority of Wood Elf passes should be 2+ (or hand offs).

But I really don't think that starting with 2 WD is a must.
LRB4 WE teams did it all the time.
In a much harsher enviroment (this is close with the apoth rules (WD being prime apoth users) but I still think it's valid, mainly through fouling being nerfed).

Plus if you're spending money on Linos, you're not taking advantage of journeymen.
WEs teams shouldn't replacing linos (unless you're rich and they got the MVP).

[The Souljourner]

If you really need the pass skill so much with wood elves you're not getting the maximum out of them IMO. It means you're probably throwing 3+ (or harder) passes often and are probably throwing too much. Wood elves are fast and mobile so often you don't even need to pass (handoffs are safer) or at least keep them quick.

I consider handoffs to be what you do when you're surrounded by guys and need to get the ball out.... or what people with lower agility do to make sure they don't have a turnover. Handoffs rob your team of valuable SPP.

As for regular passes, I try to make them 2+ whenever I can, but sometimes you just can't reach. Often it'll take a few movement to get to the ball, one to pick up, one to throw, which only leaves a few movement for getting closer to the target. You can't always get within 4 squares. And even when I do, I tend to roll a lot of 1s Pass is great because it means I can have my catcher be a few squares further down field, and if the kick sails badly, badly, I don't have to move my catch *back* in order to be in range.

Yes, rotating throwers is a great plan, and I definitely try to do it to fill out SPP as I need them, but getting Leader was really important to me. It's a free reroll that otherwise costs almost as much as a wardancer, and the only way to do that is with the thrower (or doubles, which I have yet to roll in 10 games).

I guess the question is - do you get the thrower or the second wardancer first (or, god forbid, start with only 1 reroll). I actually started my current league with only a single reroll and definitely regretted it. One of my wardancers died early on, and I've been working with just the one, and actually, it works ok. He's pretty much a blitzer for getting the ball back, and usually just needs a friend around to throw a 2 die block.

To me a thrower is approximately equivalent to 1.5 rerolls (with leader) plus a lineman, and that's a hell of a lot of value.

[DoubleSkulls]

LRB4 WE teams did it all the time.

Because 9FF was very important, and long term growth more possible under LRB4. You won't see many 11 line elf rosters under LRB5 because teams are more effectively penalised at higher TVs - so you are better off having squads with a higher number of positionals.

[mattgslater]

I agree with Ian here. LRB4 basically said "teams with management issues are TR91, give up an 8-point handicap, and win all kick-off table rolls against cheap and/or tough teams." At 91, two WDs is hard to handle. At 100, not so much.

[SillySod]

Dont think that was PubBowlers point. I think he was pointing out that woodies in LRB4 are effectively disallowed from sensibly taking 2 wardancers on their starting roster and despite this they have enjoyed a fair amount of success.... hence 2 or even 1 wardancer is a luxuary rather than a necessity. So you have the definite option to choose other luxuaries like catchers and RR instead.

For what its worth I think that its best to have two wardancers, they're underpriced and easy enough to use.

[mattgslater]

hence 2 or even 1 wardancer is a luxuary rather than a necessity ... For what its worth I think that its best to have two wardancers, they're underpriced and easy enough to use.

I agree with both. When your basic lino is 7/3/4/7 you don't really desperately need anything else. But that roster has the best all-round player in the game, one of the top two receivers (I say #2 after the Pro Elf Catcher, but you could credibly argue that it's the other way around*) and one of the top two QBs (I say #1, but you could argue the High Elf Thrower too). Since you don't HAVE to ignore it all, why would you?

* In fact, it's two of the top three receivers, but I already mentioned the best player in the game....

[Master Wang]

The Souljourner wrote:

I consider handoffs to be what you do when you're surrounded by guys and need to get the ball out.... or what people with lower agility do to make sure they don't have a turnover. Handoffs rob your team of valuable SPP.

Don't agree with this. Handoffs on teams with high movement, and especially those who can combine it with high agility, are most often used for scoring quick touchdowns by moving the ball from one end of the pitch to another: Woodelf player who's been waiting safely in the back field moves to around the half way line, makes a quick pass to another player who moves and hands off to a player within scoring distance who moves and scores. It doesn't rob you off SPPs, it gives you three for the touchdown and gives you more turns to get more. Also with lightly armoured teams, scoring quickly reduces the amount of punsihment your team takes and gives you a change to get KO'ed players back on the pitch.

For what it's worth, I don't play WEs (prefer Skaven), but I would take 2 Wardancers because they are so good, and will be a bugger to save for.

[The Souljourner]

Woodelf player who's been waiting safely in the back field moves to around the half way line, makes a quick pass to another player who moves and hands off to a player within scoring distance who moves and scores.

Uhh... you can't do all that in one turn, right? One pass per turn, handoff counts as a pass?

[one_second_of_insanity]

Woodelf player who's been waiting safely in the back field moves to around the half way line, makes a quick pass to another player who moves and hands off to a player within scoring distance who moves and scores.

Uhh... you can't do all that in one turn, right? One pass per turn, handoff counts as a pass?

A handoff is a separate action, you most definitely can do that all in one turn, it usually just takes a turn to set it all up.

[mattgslater]

This handoff issue is a major difference between WE and Skaven. Passing with WE is easier, and receiving is more reliable, so if you have a TRR or are using a Thrower or Catcher a QP is way better than a handoff, at least in a league format.

I find the high MA makes me actually less likely to handoff. With Pro Elves, I might need to get the ball farther than a QP will take me, so one player might handoff to another guy, who might then move and QP. But when everybody's MA7 you don't need that so much.

[PubBowler]

I think he was pointing out that woodies in LRB4 are effectively disallowed from sensibly taking 2 wardancers on their starting roster and despite this they have enjoyed a fair amount of success.... hence 2 or even 1 wardancer is a luxuary rather than a necessity.

Hmmm a more eloquent version of my point.
Cheers.

I think that Treeman is better than the 2nd WD in bashy leagues or against poor coaches (but if you're taking WE against coaches you know you're better than you deserve the wrath of Nuffle).

[dpwright]

Don't know if anyone has posted this version yet, but when I am starting in a league I take:

11 lineelves
4 rerolls
30k treasury.

It means that unless you roll a 1 for your winnings (and if you win it is automatic) you have an apothecary and 4 rerolls in games 2. All of your money can then go towards positionals; it means that your lineelves get the SPPs before the SPP hoggers come along.

Oh, and always take kick as the first skill. It wins games.

[sirsebstar]

what are you going to do with 4 rerolls?
And you do know its going to take mighty long to get 360K (2 wd and tree)
On average you need to win 9 games in a row (3+1 average throw) to get it.
In 9 games I will have lost half my guys already. I am getting by with 3 free lineman every game already. Once all 3 loners were killed in one game.. thats justice!

[Cramy]

Woodelf player who's been waiting safely in the back field moves to around the half way line, makes a quick pass to another player who moves and hands off to a player within scoring distance who moves and scores.

Uhh... you can't do all that in one turn, right? One pass per turn, handoff counts as a pass?

A handoff is a separate action, you most definitely can do that all in one turn, it usually just takes a turn to set it all up.

Agreed. You can pass and hand-off in the same turn. No issues there. They are two separate actions.

[FischerKing]

Overrall its a more expensive team, but it has more potential for developement than the pro elves because you have better stats and more starting skills. The catchers of the pro elf teams have good stats and the blitzers stats are also decent, but the rest of the team is bellow average for an elven team. This means that pro elves are a bit easier to keep going in a league but doesnt have the same potential for greatness in the long run.

Another thing about the woodelves is, that they are better at playing outnumbered, something you will often experiense when playing an elven team, especially the ones with av 7. The differense in speed really adds up in the long run, mv 7 vs mv 6 on the lineelves basicly.