What to do with a Blodging Beastman

[quozl]

Hi guys,

I have a developing chaos team, http://www.bloodbowl-ireland.org/team/id/43, 11 games in and they're starting to get decent.

I've only had one doubles roll so far, not that Chaos needs them, and I gave the newbie beastmen dodge. Followed by block.

So I have my first blodger. Normally this is a very useful thing, but I'm not particularly sure with chaos.

I'm thinking of either:

1: Giving him sure-hands and making him by default ball-picker-upper, and carrier, blodge and immunity to strip-ball.

Any opinions? And should I refuse future dodge access? I can make tackle pointless against me, but things like blodging st4 warriors sound pretty good.

or
2: Giving him guard as a mobile assist.

Problem with 1 is, he may hog SPPs a bit then, though a 3+ hand-off with a re-roll is usually riskable.

Problem with 2 is, he may have dodge, but I wouldn't like to start anything important with a 3+ dodge, even if re-rollable. And if I'm dodging an assist in to help, then it's probably to help something important, and I wouldn't want it to fail.

If I get any more doubles on beast-men, I think I'm going to ignore them actually. Except possibly for 1 cheap leader re-roll, and maybe, 1 passer. Though an ag3, no accurate, passer is not really that tempting to my eyes. And maybe 1 or 2 diving tacklers. Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't have taken dodge at all

[PubBowler]

To ignore the current situation for a moment, I would advise against taking Dodge on Chaos.

Unless you're going to be basing your team around Dodge (majority of positionals have Dodge for example) I wouldn't take it.

The majority of teams (esp. at high TV) have multiple Tackle.
It doesn't take many players with Tackle to remove the advantage of having Dodge on a few players.
There are other double choices which are less easily nullified.

On your Beastman, I'd have taken Leader (cheap reroll) or Side Step (coupled with Frenzy).
Or ignored the double and Block or Guard.

I'd take Prehensile Tail over Diving Tackle to avoid the 10k TV surcharge.

[quozl]

On reflection I'd pretty much come to think what you've just said there, PubBowler.

I was going to play another game right after, and to an extent, double=dodge has been my mentality with other teams, unless normal=dodge But I've no interest in spamming dodge on my chaos team - i'm too busy spamming block/guard, and I want to be able to get some interesting skills as well.

I'm not sure about prehensile tale on a s3 guy - that means another s3 guy only needs a 6 to dodge away. 72% chance. Against a S2 catcher or stunty, it's a lot better though.

You make a good point there, I'd pretty much discarded the idea of prehensile tale on s3. Maybe i shouldn't have.

I don't think I'll be taking anymore dodge. I wish I hadn't now tbh.

As I have though, I'm going to make him a surehands, blodge ball-carrier, I think. He'll be annoying for some teams, and he'll still be a block/sure-hands carrier for tackle heavy teams.

[PubBowler]

I'm not sure about prehensile tale on a s3 guy - that means another s3 guy only needs a 6 to dodge away. 72% chance. Against a S2 catcher or stunty, it's a lot better though.

You make a good point there, I'd pretty much discarded the idea of prehensile tale on s3. Maybe i shouldn't have.

You're thinking about Tentacles.
Better on high St players like the Mino or CW

Prehensile Tail adds a -1 modifier to anyone dodging within his TZ.
Useful 3rd skill (after Block & Guard) which I mentioned because it's very similar to Diving Tackle (which you had mentioned) and 10k cheaper.

[quozl]

Ahh, of course. Thanks PubBowler.

[SillySod]

Dont think I'd have taken dodge. However, now that you have I think your best option is to turn him into a ball hogging git with surehands, extra arms etc. He'll get the most out of dodge from inside a cage where people might not be able to choose who to hit him with so might not be able to use their tackle on him.

[Andromidius]

I would have considered Catch, if it was on a Beastman who already had Block or Extra Arms.

But generally, ignore Doubles on Chaos. They don't really need them.

~Andromidius

[Jural]

Dodge is awesome on Chaos Warriors... hear me out.

In many leagues, the dedicated tacklers are built to take down squishy opponents, wrestle, tackle, strip ball, Side Step, Diving tackle, etc.

With Chaos, your Blodge Chaos Warrior sits on the line, and tempts your opponent to put that squishy hunter on the line near by him. And often, the piece is easily picked apart.

If your opponent doesn't mark him, then the Chaos Warrior can re-deploy rather easily, which makes your cage a nasty thing. Focus on a Block, Dodge, Guard, Mighty Blow, (maybe prehensile tail or tentacles too) build and don't worry about two heads... you are not really planning to dodge with him the much!

I had two Dodge Chaos warriors before anf they got some pretty yummy targets to take down.

[mattgslater]

Dodge is awesome on Chaos Warriors. Blodge/Stand Firm/ST4 is very hard to cope with and makes him very obnoxious as an ILB or as a man-marker for a big guy (dangerous there; if they don't KD, he only needs one assist to be dangerous). But this is in great part because ST4 makes him a hard target for hunters, Longbeards and other Tackle players. Beastmen lack that luxury.

[Smeborg]

In my experience, Dodge is very viable on a Chaos team, but if you do this you need to give Dodge on pretty much every double that you roll.

Personally, I would give the blodging Beastman Two Heads next, in order to get that magic 2+ dodge.

Since 5th Edition, I tend to prefer Wrestle to Block on Beastmen, as it makes them into excellent Blitzers (sack the ball carrier).

Hope this helps.

[Decker_cky]

All the other double suggestions are wrong.

Leap is THE double roll to take on a beastman double. It opens entirely new dimensions with the team, then at 16 SPP you have a 3+ S4 cage breaker. Until he gets VLL, I wouldn't leap too much, but it is nice in emergency situations, and it's handy if you have a slann opponent.

Sidestep is ok...so is dodge, and so is DT. But in general, I'd agree with Andromidius when he said to in general ignore doubles. Except leap, which is a key strength on the team.

For your blodge beast, make him a ball carrier, so sure hands, two heads and/or extra arms. You won't regret having dodge, since even if your opponents have a tackler or two, they have to make sure those players are the ones blitzing to dependably blitz your ball carrier.

[quozl]

He's turned out surprisingly useful so far, though I haven't played a tackle heavy team yet.

His main plus seems to be that either people have no tackle, or they forget that he's a blodger, as he's my only one.

That's the main plus of my S4 beastman too!

Once a game, my opponent will forget and mess up because of that.

Admittedly, we're not the highest of standard obviously, but it's been working out so far )

[Andromidius]

Also, if your Blodging Beastman causes enough trouble in your league then your opponants may start to stack up Tackle with their skillups.

This can work to your advantage, since then they've got several players with a skill that only effects one of your players. And if he's not on the pitch for any reason, then it's wasted Team Value on their part.

As long as you don't start giving everyone Dodge (and thus giving Tackle a higher actual value), it can be very useful.

And suggestions for future skills, the first one has to be Two Heads, followed by Big Hand. He'll become the best ball retriever you could hope to get (without rolling a slew of 11's for agility, of course). Of course, if you do roll agility, then you can't pass that up! If he survives to his 5th skill, Sure Hands is a boring but useful choice.

Though you could take Sure Hands before Big Hand, I suppose. But that's not really very Chaotic, is it?

Heck, I might even consider Extra Arms. A Beastman with three Mutations? Oh yes.

~Andromidius

[AK_Dave]

Two Heads - absolutely. I was thinking the same myself. Blodging Beastman with Two Heads would be extraordinarily annoying. From there, build him in any direction you want. Assuming you get the chance to get him a 4th roll.

Maybe skip the Sure Hands in favor of Mutations across the board: Two Heads, Big Hand, Extra Arms. Whats not to love about that?

Blodge combined with VLL, Leap, and Two Heads would be another fun one.

[Storch]

You have to decide if he is going to be the one to pick up the ball or the one to run with it.

Blodge is a nice start and two heads would help the mobility if he is the ball carrier. In that case I would consider Leap and maybe pro later down the line so he can reliably get where he's going regardless of what's in your way.

If he is the one to scoop it up after someone else knocks it free, I would second the big hand/sure hands route