Help me think this through (5 drive BB)

juergen · Post by **juergen** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:48 am

I just found this topic and it is really intresting.

I really like the idea of field position and getting it closer to American Football. Keep the ideas comming... I try to bring some up on my own.

Setting up offense first sounded like a very good idea in first place. But on second thought, I don't know. Defense will always set up so the O will hardly get a one die block. Maybe limiting the numbers of players on the LOS might help.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:49 am

As stated, offense will be setting up first, so bashy teams should have a big advantage stopping speedy teams.

(Also, while bashy teams enjoy stalling for 8 turns, I think most of them can score in 4 turns if they try, when they're starting from the LOS.)

Cheers
Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:58 am

Hi Juergen,
that would be the big help for bashy teams.
If they stack the LOS with some strong players, I think they will get 2D blocks.
After all, when their turn starts, they can move in assists.
And if the defense crams the LOS as a response, then things could turn into a bloodbath (or the offense could get a good shot at moving their entire team to one side.)

Softie teams will not be able to throw many blocks on the LOS. But the blitz action can help set something up. Or they can dodge away. Or perhaps a well placed big guy can blow a hole

I think I'll be doing an 8 man tournament with this on pbem come new years.
Cheers
Martin

juergen · Post by **juergen** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:16 am

Just had another idea

Offense/Defense Setup:
On any kickoff (start of any half, after a TD has been scored) the kicking team sets up first - which is basically similar to American Football, the receiving team has the advantage to know what they will do on the return

after any punt let the offense set up first - similar to AF, where the offense has to stand still and defense can move around. Forget motions, shifts for the moment (could be a nice skill idea tough)

The Punt:
Could be handled like passing, where kick skill works like accurate or strong arm (strong foot comes to mind). But I would get rid of the modifiers for the range on fumbling the ball (I still miss the point why a thrower has a higher chance of fumbling just because he tries to throw further down the field - never saw this in AF). For fumbles I would only count 1's and additional opponents Tackle Zones.

For the drive:
If the ball is not in the arms of player in the endzone at the end of turn 4, the next drive starts excactly where the ball is at the end of turn 4. This lets you make decicions on the start of turn 4. do I risk to try to score (and in case of a turnover suffer from ball position), immediately punt, or just try to move forward if you think the kicker is to bad.

juergen · Post by **juergen** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:17 am

plasmoid wrote: I think I'll be doing an 8 man tournament with this on pbem come new years.

count me in, I think I can get enough time for playtesting on pbemb

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:06 pm

Quick idea regarding rerolls:

- leave prices for rerolls as they are
- each team gets DOUBLE the number of rerolls at the beginning of the game
- rerolls are NOT "refreshed" when kicking-off / at the start of quarters. Instead, the teams have to go through the entire game (16 turns) with their (doubled) number of rerolls.

This way we do not have to search for a new balance of prices etc.
The only difference - and I think one can live with that - is more flexibility over the duration of the game (you can save rr for later turns).

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:19 pm

Hi Prisma and all,

having had time to think about it, I probably will try Voyager_uk's "field psoition" version, over my own "4 short drives version".

With that in mind, it looks like there will be no half-time. So double the rerolls is probably a good and easy solution.

As for the punting the ball, I've decided against it. If teams can decide to punt the ball when they can't score, then every drive would start deep deep in the opposing half, making it very hard for slow teams to score. Instead, I'll probably let the opposing team start with an LOS on the square where the other team last held the ball.
(So, while you can't punt, you can let a player run with the ball into the open, even though he won't score).

I have to think a bit more about rules for changing possession, but other than that, I'm getting there.

Cheers
Martin

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:24 pm

I'll help playtest it martin

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:09 pm

Hi Plasmoid,

can you merge all the proposals made here into one long post we can use as playtest-rules ?

would be nice, I'd like to test this out...

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:25 pm

so... several months later... nothing happened...

we talked about it, nevertheless... somehow... the idea died ??

Noone working on it ?

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:55 pm

I can only guess it is down to Martin taking on Admin duties for the MBBL that has delayed this. I wouldn't call it dead

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:19 pm

as I re-read it, I almost have to re-emphasze the need for the Punt, other wise the Agility teams will have less ground to cover to score.

it could be very simple, ST + D6 so range is 2-14 squares (assuming a ST8 Treeman out there somewhere)

touchbacks would work from usual LOS

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:04 pm

Yeah, I'm swamped - though RL is to blame rather than MBBL.

The length of the punt is the crucial bit. If punts go too far, then every 4 turn drive will start pretty close to the offense's EZ - leaving slow teams in a bit of a pickle.

Cheers
Martin

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:26 pm

we should as Prisma said, draft a set of potential test rules and go from there....

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:21 pm

Hi all,
1) having thought a little about it, I'm not sure I see the big difference between punt + set-up, and set-up + kick-off (punt). We just need to rewrite the kick-off rules a bit to have a maximum range rather than complete placement freedom.

2) What I really need help with is how to handle sacks or (potentially voluntary) ball dropping.
See - I kind of like how in BB (not NFL) when the ball is knocked lose, play does not stop.

Any ideas?
I have a hard time figuring this out. A basically want a team that has dropped the ball to play on - otherwize we could be drowning in set-ups. On the other hand, if the defense steals the ball, I don't want them to run the ball for 3 turns, and then get 4 new turns to run it in.

Hmmm....
4 turn drives would be easier you know

Cheers
Martin