What to do with a Blodging Beastman

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:20 pm

His next roll will be 31 SPP, and that will likely be Two Heads, 'cause then he'll be awesome even by Bull Centaur standards for the same TV add and a lot less cash. 51 points is way too late for Leap on an AG3 player, with or without M access. You really need to get Leap by 16, unless you have an AG increase. At 51, I'd give him either Extra Arms or Stand Firm. If he gets doubles again, then I'd get Side Step: Blodge/SS is gnarly on a bash team.

Magictobe · Post by **Magictobe** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:38 am

When I had seen the title my first reaction was ...

Killed it!!!!!

quozl · Post by **quozl** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:51 pm

I rolled another on different block beastman - I have a lot of block beastmen!

I've decided that I'll give him Side Step, and then when i get another, I'll give them side step also. SideStep made for great corners on my woody team. If you blitzed them, even if they went down they could decide to sidestep to the edge of the pitch in-line with my OLB. Meaning you'd have to make a dodge past the OLB as the square further away from him was full.

So, whoever you blitzed, you'd still end up making a dodge to get through.

I don't feel stand-firm works as well for this, as if you go down, the furthest outside square doesn't involve a dodge. Or am I missing how you can do this with standfirm?

This is what I mean:

If you have sidestep on 14 and 8, when hit, if you sidestep forward and outwards, then whether you're down or not, your opponent still has to dodge.

How do I do this sort of thing with standfirm? I don't want to put S4 chaos warriors out there really. And with only standfirm I figure they have to stay on their feet.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:41 am

Assuming your opponent has no juggernaut then just stand on the sideline.

You take a couple of frenzy players (10 & 11) then pray they go for the sideline guy since you'll be able to surf easily

Personally I think stand firm is better for you since its 10k less TV on each player and you are turning down other valuable doubles in its place too.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:25 am

quozl wrote:If you have sidestep on 14 and 8, when hit, if you sidestep forward and outwards, then whether you're down or not, your opponent still has to dodge.

Move the corners up one square, especially if you can stick Guard guys next to them. Otherwise, if the blitzing player follows, they will be able to dodge into the clear. Side Step does weird things to wide zone calcs.

How do I do this sort of thing with standfirm? I don't want to put S4 chaos warriors out there really. And with only standfirm I figure they have to stay on their feet.

Stand Firm is an inferior cornerback skill compared to Side Step. It's almost as good on the ILB, and it's a wash vs. Side Step on the line (it can't be negated as easily, but it doesn't limit the number of opposing blocks). But generally, Side Step is more than worth the 10k over Stand Firm, especially on a player without Guard.

quozl · Post by **quozl** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:52 am

ianwilliams wrote:Assuming your opponent has no juggernaut then just stand on the sideline.

You take a couple of frenzy players (10 & 11) then pray they go for the sideline guy since you'll be able to surf easily

Thanks Ian, that's helpful. I'm not seeing much on the principles behind defensive setups. More people putting up a specific defensive setup for their team without an explanation of why they choose it over other similar variants. So I'm trying to piece the reasoning together and apply it to my own stuff.

Personally I think stand firm is better for you since its 10k less TV on each player and you are turning down other valuable doubles in its place too.

The 10K less TV is very true, but I think SS is worth it, just for the 2 corners though.
I don't mind giving up the doubles, tbh, I'm very tempted not to take the doubles on my chaos team as it is.
I don't need leader - I have 4 re-rolls, and plenty of block. I never struggle for re-rolls.
I don't need dodge - I won't have much of it, and making tackle a dead skill is tempting. Particularly because the best bashy team other than my chaos at the moment in the league is dwarves.
I'm not mad about Diving Tackle as I can get prehensile tail on a normal roll. I'll consider put 2 prehensile tail guys at OLB as they're the ones that will have to be dodged around if the corners are blitzed. DT might be better, but I don't want to lie my OLBs down and open a proper hole.
Pass is a real possibility. One on the team could be good, but unless I get a double on somebody with accurate then I'm relying on a second double for accurate to get the magical 2+ re-rollable pass. I don't like re-rollable 3+s, especially followed by another re-rollable 3+. I wouldn't put catch on a beastmen as team re-rolls can do the job without making somebody the main catcher. Extra arms I can get on a normal, and I need one of, but I'm still building up block/guard (here's my team btw http://www.bloodbowl-ireland.org/team/id/43) The developed dwarf team is currently way way down the ladder, but that's because we imported full teams from the end of our last league and he's only played one game - he won that league against my woodies in the final (1-0, the git)

So it's just the extra 10K TV that I really hold against the choice.

mattgslater wrote: Move the corners up one square, especially if you can stick Guard guys next to them. Otherwise, if the blitzing player follows, they will be able to dodge into the clear. Side Step does weird things to wide zone calcs.

Ahh yeah, that was dumb. If I move them up and they don't get knocked down, and I then Side-step them horizontally outwards, my opponent will have to do a dodge into at least 1 TZ after the blitz followup. That's way better for me than an unmodified dodge.

Funny the stuff you miss. I'm only starting to put some thought into defensive setups now tbh.