Skaven Team development question

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:45 pm

I currently have a low TR Skaven team and I have a few questions about it's development (I'm not an experienced coach). Currently I have :

1 Blitzer with Mighty Blow
1 Unskilled Blitzer
1 Blodger GR
1 Blodger GR with Strip Ball
1 GR with Side Step
1 Thrower with Accurate
4 Unskilled Lineman
1 Lineman with Block
1 Lineman with Kick
200K in the bank
3 Rerolls
5 FF

On my last match, my second Blitzer(the unskilled one) rolled a +1 MA and my Blodger GR with Strip Ball rolled a double.

I'm a bit hesitating on what I should do. I was planning to take Strip Ball on the Blizter but I'm not sure how usefull a +1 MA is... On the GR, I was planning to take Dauntless but, again, with a double, I'm not sure what to do.

One the Blizter, I guess I should take the +1MA. For the GR, VLL followed by Leap seems good but I'd like to have some suggestions. Guard? Extra Arms? Something else?

Lastly, with the 200K, I'm planning to buy a Rat Ogre and a Lineman? Does it sounds good? A lineman and a Reroll? Lineman and a GR?

Thanks for any help?

Cheers,

Cheezy

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:54 pm

Horns then leap on the gutter runner.

I like Skaven blitzers to be killing machines, so I think I would go for mighty blow, if it is not double five - then claw is autochoice. But MA 8 ST 3 is a killer combo, so you proberbly want regret MA+. You could also take guard, but I like mighty blow as first skill for the SPPs.

Buy the ratogre, its a great player. only needs juggernaut to be fairly safe. And you realy need it when you dont have guard.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:01 pm

AV9 make the Blitzer living longer and getting more skills and staying on the pitch.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:07 pm

I'd go with Guard for the blitzer. It's way more useful than the extra 1 movement since you only have two players with Stregth access.

Horns for the GR. Do not take VLL first. Only take VLL if you already have leap to begin with. Horns are good with Strip Ball for a sacker and eventualy cage breaker (with leap). Big hand is useful if you want to be able to free the ball and scamper off with it in one go, but it's usually a better idea to use 2 GR for that play (one knocks out the ball, the other picks it up for the score). You could also consider Two Heads to make him a better cage breaker, but having 3ST when you get in due to Horns is probably more handy than forcing the dodge and then landing a 2d against block.

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:46 pm

Tripleskull wrote:Horns then leap on the gutter runner.

I like Skaven blitzers to be killing machines, so I think I would go for mighty blow, if it is not double five - then claw is autochoice. But MA 8 ST 3 is a killer combo, so you proberbly want regret MA+. You could also take guard, but I like mighty blow as first skill for the SPPs.

Buy the ratogre, its a great player. only needs juggernaut to be fairly safe. And you realy need it when you dont have guard.

I did not think about Horns but it do seems better than Very Long Legs. Leap as a follow up skill seems good too but Wrestle seems good too on a Ball Sacker.

For the Blizter, I'm really split over taking the MA or not.

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:47 pm

stashman wrote:AV9 make the Blitzer living longer and getting more skills and staying on the pitch.

Hmmm. True. But I'd think that the MA is more usefull than AV. Any other have toughts on that?

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:49 pm

Warpstone wrote:I'd go with Guard for the blitzer. It's way more useful than the extra 1 movement since you only have two players with Stregth access.

Horns for the GR. Do not take VLL first. Only take VLL if you already have leap to begin with. Horns are good with Strip Ball for a sacker and eventualy cage breaker (with leap). Big hand is useful if you want to be able to free the ball and scamper off with it in one go, but it's usually a better idea to use 2 GR for that play (one knocks out the ball, the other picks it up for the score). You could also consider Two Heads to make him a better cage breaker, but having 3ST when you get in due to Horns is probably more handy than forcing the dodge and then landing a 2d against block.

Guard on the Blizter is probably very good yeah. I though about giving it to the GR instead but it does not really make sense since he already have Strip Ball.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Wrestle should have bin first skill when you take strip ball as 2nd, now I think you should stick with horns, leap.

I think Stashman has a point about AV too. just to make the choice harder.

Still I would go for mighty blow. Skaven has lot of speed, and they get hurt easily, so they need to hurt back. Tha MA and the psyko blitzers takes care of that.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:00 pm

I'd be tempted by +Av on the blitzer. Then guard & stand firm and he'll be one toughie

Horns on strip ball GR.

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:20 am

Tripleskull wrote:Wrestle should have bin first skill when you take strip ball as 2nd, now I think you should stick with horns, leap.

The general advice for a ball sacker is wrestle & strip ball instead of block & strip ball?

I'm not sure for this one. I do get that you drop the ball on a double skull but you end up on the ground. There is a lot of fouling in my league so a skilled GR on the ground is a very tempting target... Block helps you stay standing in defense as in offense and a lot of the times the guy who holds the ball do not have block (not yet anyway since our league is relatively new)

I guess I'll develop my fourth GR with wrestle&strip ball to see how it goes.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:51 am

Joemanji made an excellent point about Dauntless versus Horns on a Gutter Runner in an earlier thread. On a ST3 player Horns is obviously much better, but on a GR Horns doesn't help against ST4 (or above) ball carriers whereas Dauntless does. Additionally, Dauntless helps against every other ST4 player as well such as Black Orcs and Big Guys. Dauntless is also cheaper. Having Dauntless overall is good and you have no other obvious players to put it on as the linerats don't usually hang around too long.

I wouldn't take AV9 followed by Stand Firm and Guard on the Blitzer. I don't think Skaven teams really do need individual tough guys. You still wouldn't place him on the LOS, so it's really hit and miss whether the AV is useful. +MA is also redundant. MV7 is good enough almost every time and MV8 on a skaven team doesn't really bring anything new. What I really mean is that the opportunity cost of not taking any other S skill such as Mighty Blow or Guard is too great. You only have two (+RO) players with S access. I'd take Guard on the other Blitzer who skilled up. MV7 Guard is great and having even one Guarder on a team is a big jump from no Guard at all.

Go on and buy the Rat Ogre. He'll make your games interesting. Just don't count on him to do anything useful. Wrestle on the Strip Baller is good. When he's on the ground following a succesful strip ball your opponent has a lot of other things to worry about (such as the ball on some other GR or on the ground) than fouling some annoying rat.

Cheezy · Post by **Cheezy** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:52 am

Thanks for everybody.

I finally took Horns on the GR and Guard on the Blizter.

THe rational for Horns was that we do not have a lot of teams with str 4 that can manipulate the ball (ie, AG3). What we have is mostly str 2/3 ctachers&runners. Horns will always work as opposed to Dauntless that have a 1/6 chance to fail.

I also bought the Rat Ogre.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:46 am

Cheezy wrote:THe rational for Horns was that we do not have a lot of teams with str 4 that can manipulate the ball (ie, AG3). What we have is mostly str 2/3 ctachers&runners. Horns will always work as opposed to Dauntless that have a 1/6 chance to fail.

I forgot about this too. Dauntless wouldn't help against ST2.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:22 pm

I'm not fond of Horns on Gutter Runners, since now it doesn't work alongside Dauntless. If the enemy ball carrier is S4 (which is possible and probable on a Chaos Team if they see a Gutter Runner with Horns) then the Horns do nothing, you'll still only be S3.

I'd have actually been tempted with Guard for the Runner, or possibly Two Heads. Being able to get into tight spaces to provide assists would be golden, especially with the Blodge protection.

And the Blitzer? Guard. All the way. Only stat I'd have taken over Guard for the first skill is +ST.

~Andromidius

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:32 pm

First, you need an apothecary.

Mighty Blow is what I would have taken for the Blitzer. But Guard is never bad on a Blitzer.

For the GR, lots of good options in this thread. Depends on what you want this guy to be. Horns is good though. What I found with GRs is that to be really effective, you need to develop them to completent each-other. One to knock the ball down, one to pick it up and get away, a one turn scorer (which is very useful even when not trying to score in one turn), etc ...