has anyone tried unusual dwarf advances?

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:39 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking at the dwarfs, and while I like the models, and the character of the team...I'm bored to tears by the advancement prospects.

After reading a blog on a non-standard orc team advancement that seemed to do well, I'm left wondering if anyone has tried something similar with dwarves.

So, rather than..Guard, MB, Guard Guard Guard...
has anyone tried out...stand firm, Grab, fend...etc etc.

Any success with non "cookie cutter" dwarves?

just curious.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:05 pm

A coach in our league recently built a passing attack dwarf team that was fairly effective.

Tarp · Post by **Tarp** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:57 pm

well... it seems your more tired of dwarfs.
Without alot of guard the other bash teams will own them long term, and they need to play fast/agile teams with superior numbers on the pitch. So alot of guard (+MB) is realy the "only" way to go for the longbeards, and then MB on most of the other dwarf players :/

If you want action and lots of fancy ballhandling and moves, then dwarves are not the best option, ofcause you can always play them as a gimic team

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:24 pm

Guard is a must skill on dwarfs.

I have a dwarf team where I don't pick Mighty Blow untill 51 spp

on any player except slayers.

If all my dwarfs would have mighty blow, I don't think anyone would have fun in playing them.

I have choosen skills like wrestle, fend, grab, stand firm and side step and diving tackle on doubles.

I have a dwarf blocker with AG3 and I used to have a dwarf blitzer with leap, but I got fired

Didn't even use the skill before he left the team

Have I won?
I have been Winner of Third Place, Runners Up and one title of a Gold Winner! So you can do good aslong as you have guard players.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:32 am

Guard is essential, but you can take a lot of variety as the second skill. Having a line of 3 guard/SF blockers will be incredibly handy, as will having a few grabs. An extra dauntless wouldn't be out of place in a high strength league. Diving tackle on doubles is a very good idea. Multiblock on a +ST player would be solid too (ideally on a blitzer for mobility though).

There's lots of good skills for dwarfs now, but without the guard, you'll be on your heels against most teams.

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:16 am

Gramp I hear you...

"You can't play Orcs without Guard on everyone" They Said...
I only have one player with Guard on a 222 TV orc team and I'm on an eight game win streak! Out of 26 games I've only lost two.

Saddly though, you do need Guard. But really how much do you need? Not more than 4 or at most 5.

Dwarves are a Bash Team without Strength... So Take Dauntless

That'd be my Gimmick

Linemen with Dauntless then Multi-block then Grab (Ignore Doubles)
A few Linemen (maybe two or three) with Guard then Grab then Stand Firm (Ignore Doubles).
Slayers as Killers = Mighty Blow, Pile On, Juggernaught? or Tackle? (Jump Up)
Blitzers as Suport Players = Stand Firm, Guard, maybe Pass Block? or Strip Ball (Diving Tackle)
Runners as Dumpers = Dump Off, NoS, Wrestle (Sure Feet, Jump Up)

If you want a shot at Non Standard, but sucessful, that's the way I'd head. Here is my Idea in a nut shell...

You use the Guard/Grab Players to set up sweet Multi Blocks. Remember that you don't need to use Multi Block, so If you're in a better position to throw a single, do so. The way Multi Works now (Throw the 1st Block... THEN calculate the ST on the 2nd Block) means that you can set up Multi's with two advantage hits by counting on the first scoreing a pushback. It'd be a really fun tactic to explore!

Throwing two blocks for the price of one will free up some linemen so they can move into another position (the Dwarves biggest penalty is speed, and You just got some back!)

The Blitzers are there purely to protect the runners, (Don't even enguage in combat if you can help it, make them come to you) and the runners dump between each other (or a Blitzer in an emergency) Strip Ball would be good on a Blitzer too.

Play Pure defence... Other than the runners there is not a single player who plays an Offensive role. Let your player score and then have fun playing a Grind without Mass Guard!

Against ST teams:
Just resist the urge to follow up. He'll come to you and then you Block the heck out of him. Dauntless will kill his advantage. The Slayers will start to sway the Man advantage in your way (with a little luck)

Against AG Teams:
You need to play 'Defencive' Offecne. Let them score and cage up and follow all the points pointed out above.

Caging is all part of the charm of playing Dwarves... Play to that strength!

I doubt you'd see a lot of early success, but after some development... Bingo! (Slow early development means that early on you'll get to buy the Sweet Dwarf Inducements <Saws and Bombs anyone> which is another nonstandard Dwarf game plan)

P.S.: Everyone will tell you Mass Guard is esential, but Thats only what they say... Prove them wrong!

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:23 am

Man o man, it hasn been 10 minutes yet and I'm excited!

What other team could be built on multi block if not dwarves? Once the multi blockers get grab, this team would get really fun! In late development, get those guarders you're missing and "BooYa!"

Look for a team like this once the Computer game goes live!

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:09 am

bouf: Hmmmmm, that's some crazy thinking...might be worth a try. Dauntless and mutliblock.....My prediction would be massed suicide, or crazy brilliant success.

Ok, so if instead of Guard I decided to go with massed Grab on the linos; Do you think that would give me enough field position to counter the need for guard?

bouf · Post by **bouf** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:48 am

If your looking at massed multi you'll still want a guard or three.

If your thinking mass grab (over guard) you'd get plenty of field advantage there. You would be able to set up whatever fight you wish. Depending on if you knock them down will give you heaps of options...

Do I follow, where do I push... Etc

But the gimmick would be short lived I think. You'd get some unusual advantage but not much. You'd need to back it up somehow. So it begs the question "if you took mass grab, what next?"

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:13 pm

As much as I despise Dwarves (& Elves) in BB, this thread is very interesting.... Certain criteria/objectives have to be met to win a game:

1. Concentration of Force: just like in American/European Football, he/she who gets there the fastest, with the mostest, usually gets the score....

2. Being "up" and on your feet is more opportune than being "down"....
a. w/o Jump Up, you must blitz to block from the ground
b. you use up movement to stand (again, w/o JU), diluting opportunities elsewhere....
c. Possible injuries to you are eliminated by opponents on the ground.
d. Prone/Stunned/Injured and dead opponents help you concentrate your force.

3. Scoring....

Without a doubt, Dwarves are boring to the extent that I've never, and never will, play them... despite being a D&D/Tolkien Dwarf fan.... Yet their milli-vanilli flavor is their seemingly only chance to win....

If you can find another way to satisfy the 3 criterion, I'm quite happy for you....

Mo · Post by Mo » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:19 pm

Hey Grampyseer, thanks for starting this discussion. If you hadn't I was just about to myself. One of the teams I'll be playing this year is Dwarf and I've been scratching my head too trying to figure out a more entertaining option than 'oh look another Dwarf team where they all get guard.'

Some guard will certainly be in order, but I don't want to put myself to sleep with it.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:12 pm

I'm starting to believe that alternating guard, Grab, multiblock could work.

You'd have a few head-scratching scrums to sort out...but in the end, you'd be a surgical blocking team.......at least in theory..I might need to try it.

Decker_cky · Post by **Decker_cky** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:51 pm

The problem with avoiding guard is that the dwarf team just isn't mobile at all. Every other team either has high movement AG3+ guarders, or high strength. Dwarfs (and CD) are low strength, low agility and low movement. Without out guarding opponents, you just can't do the appropriate application of force.

Now you don't need guard on every player, but 3/4 blocker skills should be guard until you've got 5-6 guards minimum. That still will start to get much more interesting skills by the time you're around TV150 or so, but it doesn't ignore your teams main strength (strength access on linemen).

Gumbo · Post by **Gumbo** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:26 pm

If you're looking for unusual dwarf advances talking to Grumbledook.

I hear he has a bit of a midget fetish and I'm sure he'd have some great tips........

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:10 pm

I have heard that Grab can be an excellent skill choice for the dwarves as you can get an "assembly line" effect going, where you can push somebody down the line, down the line, down the line until they are in position for the troll slayer to Frenzy him into the crowd.